Besides being slow as a snail and leading me wrong,you mean?

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Post #245,650 by CRConrad 2/21/06 5:46:48 PM Reply	Besides being slow as a snail and leading me wrong,you mean? First off, I did not "claim that ALL handling characteristics" [emphasis added] derive from the suspension geometry (or as you put it, "the steel frame and general tire placement"). Secondly: Yeah, sure, when you put it that way, that "mere" tuning-type engineering sure sounds like "real" enough engineering... But in the end, I think you actually prove my original point: You talk about how they "de-tune" cars for the US market; i.e, it's still about "mere" tuning -- OK, not so "mere", that is, as per the above... But still, certainly NOT "nowhere close", AFAICS. I still stand by that point: If not exactly the same thing, they're still quite quite close. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat]
Post #245,655 by bepatient 2/21/06 6:03:15 PM Reply	Um. ok. they're built on the same frame. They use substantially different parts for the rest of the buildout. For you, that makes them quite close. I'll accept that, with the caveat then that for me the "quite close" for the zx3 focus would have given me a car that handled worse, performed worse, looked worse and cost more. Not a trade I was willing to make. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #245,658 by CRConrad 2/21/06 6:17:25 PM Reply	OK. ("ZX3", izzat what the Volvo-engined one is called?)
Post #245,714 by bepatient 2/22/06 8:49:23 AM Reply	no...thats what the base 2.0l 3-door is called. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]

Zoom Zoom Zoom - (bepatient) - (46) - Feb. 17, 2006, 07:14:15 PM EST

Oooh. Stealthy. - (Another Scott) - (2) - Feb. 17, 2006, 07:37:34 PM EST

Didn't even consider Nissan - (bepatient) - (1) - Feb. 17, 2006, 07:41:23 PM EST

Agreed. - (Another Scott) - Feb. 17, 2006, 08:20:05 PM EST

That it is - (SpiceWare) - Feb. 17, 2006, 07:56:55 PM EST

Very nice -NT - (broomberg) - Feb. 17, 2006, 10:53:45 PM EST

well at that end of the market I buy at price/warranty - (boxley) - (37) - Feb. 17, 2006, 11:18:57 PM EST

Understood - (bepatient) - (36) - Feb. 18, 2006, 03:11:50 PM EST

I think the mazda is a great choice, good engineering -NT - (boxley) - (35) - Feb. 19, 2006, 08:22:47 PM EST

Just as good - or bad - as the Ford Focus and Volvo S40/V50. -NT - (CRConrad) - (34) - Feb. 20, 2006, 04:08:38 AM EST

Not even close - (bepatient) - (33) - Feb. 20, 2006, 03:43:45 PM EST

plus the focus handles like crap and was 8k more than kia -NT - (boxley) - (3) - Feb. 20, 2006, 04:09:35 PM EST

Theres a focus model much less expensive - (bepatient) - (2) - Feb. 20, 2006, 04:39:53 PM EST

the local ford dealer would only go as low - (boxley) - (1) - Feb. 20, 2006, 06:20:49 PM EST

guess maybe with tax, tag and all that other crap - (bepatient) - Feb. 20, 2006, 10:22:37 PM EST

That's not "engineering" - not of the basic *car* itself. - (CRConrad) - (28) - Feb. 21, 2006, 03:05:45 AM EST

well handling of a mac truck is the same as a focus - (boxley) - (19) - Feb. 21, 2006, 08:40:28 AM EST

You really don't know WTF you're gibbering about, do you? -NT - (CRConrad) - (18) - Feb. 21, 2006, 10:01:48 AM EST

Problem with your thought process - (bepatient) - (17) - Feb. 21, 2006, 11:55:01 AM EST

Softest car I've driven was a Euro - (tonytib) - (12) - Feb. 21, 2006, 02:17:55 PM EST

Citroen C5. - (pwhysall) - (11) - Feb. 22, 2006, 03:59:02 PM EST

Re: Citroen C5. - maybe continuing the mix of the Ami 6 - (Ashton) - (8) - Feb. 22, 2006, 08:54:01 PM EST

Some Audi A4 models are 5-pots. - (pwhysall) - Feb. 23, 2006, 01:45:30 AM EST

No, straight sixes are the smoothest. - (CRConrad) - (6) - Feb. 23, 2006, 05:15:47 AM EST

I thought V-12s were smoother. - (Another Scott) - (5) - Feb. 23, 2006, 07:11:50 AM EST

OK... Marginally so. (power pulses delivered twice as often) -NT - (CRConrad) - (4) - Feb. 23, 2006, 07:25:50 AM EST

I actually thought the... - (folkert) - (3) - Feb. 23, 2006, 10:24:24 AM EST

Naah. The eight is rougher, and the twelve is impractical. - (CRConrad) - (2) - Feb. 23, 2006, 10:52:10 AM EST

Cadillac V-16 Roadster - (tonytib) - (1) - Feb. 23, 2006, 11:55:54 AM EST

Dunno if I've mentioned this before - one of the previous... - (CRConrad) - Feb. 23, 2006, 05:41:58 PM EST

2.4L V5 Volvo V40?I thought that's a STRAIGHT (IN-LINE) five -NT - (CRConrad) - (1) - Feb. 23, 2006, 05:17:51 AM EST

Disclaimer: I never looked under the bonnet. -NT - (pwhysall) - Feb. 23, 2006, 07:19:17 AM EST

Besides being slow as a snail and leading me wrong,you mean? - (CRConrad) - (3) - Feb. 21, 2006, 05:46:48 PM EST

Um. ok. - (bepatient) - (2) - Feb. 21, 2006, 06:03:15 PM EST

OK. ("ZX3", izzat what the Volvo-engined one is called?) -NT - (CRConrad) - (1) - Feb. 21, 2006, 06:17:25 PM EST

no...thats what the base 2.0l 3-door is called. -NT - (bepatient) - Feb. 22, 2006, 08:49:23 AM EST

Reminds me of making a car salesman uncomfortable... - (inthane-chan) - (5) - Feb. 21, 2006, 11:20:57 AM EST

"Bloody wiseguys, think they know it all..." (or words to... - (CRConrad) - Feb. 21, 2006, 04:42:16 PM EST

Had a reverse situation happen once - (bepatient) - (3) - Feb. 21, 2006, 05:56:34 PM EST

What a maroon. (Or, are you sure it was the 9FOUR4?) - (CRConrad) - (2) - Feb. 21, 2006, 06:15:02 PM EST

Got the year spot on - (bepatient) - Feb. 21, 2006, 06:28:42 PM EST

"Real Porsches have air cooled flat sixes" - (Another Scott) - Feb. 21, 2006, 09:07:13 PM EST

Performance Focus is the ST - (pwhysall) - (1) - Feb. 22, 2006, 03:46:58 PM EST

Dear Lord - (bepatient) - Feb. 22, 2006, 05:05:24 PM EST

hope the grin on your face doesn't - (cforde) - Feb. 18, 2006, 02:47:17 AM EST

Yay! I really liked your last Mazda! -NT - (imric) - (1) - Feb. 18, 2006, 03:12:20 AM EST

The similar model now sports 274 hp - (bepatient) - Feb. 18, 2006, 03:25:20 PM EST

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