It is a derivative work

Post #241,604 by ben_tilly 1/17/06 3:01:39 AM Reply	It is a derivative work Sorry Todd, but this is a very well-established part of copyright law. There are many kinds of copies, and copies need not be exact. It is quite easy to unintentionally breach copyright. But if someone set out to make a copy, no matter how imperfect the result, you are definitely violating copyright. To name an important example, it is not exactly copying to make a translation. Yet translations are still covered under the original copyright. (The translator also gets a copyright, recognizing that the resulting document is partly copied, and partly created.) That case is very similar to this one. Someone sets out to wind up with a work that is in some way the original, but which is very different in detail. (In one case it is sound vs writing, in the other it is one language versus another.) The result, no matter how different, is covered under copyright. IANAL and all that, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a lawyer who would disagree. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #241,638 by tuberculosis 1/17/06 11:06:26 AM 1/17/06 11:14:17 AM Reply	So you might as well outlaw the instruction of music since it is necessary to learn to play/study existing pieces before moving to original works. Sorry, I don't agree with this law and it will be violated everywhere. Laws that are routinely violated aren't worth having. ------- I just had a thought. These tabs notations are clean room reverse engineered implementations of the songs. We don't necessarily know how it was played, we are guessing based on the sound of the thing coupled with our experience with our instrument and providing notes on how to achieve an approximation of the same sound based on our experience with the instrument. IOW, we don't have access to the source code of the song but we've reimplemented it based on our external observations of how it acts. Kind of muddies things a bit - yes? Just a thought experiment. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush Edited by tuberculosis Jan. 17, 2006, 11:14:17 AM EST Expand All History
Post #241,646 by jbrabeck 1/17/06 1:30:24 PM Reply	But, you bought the music to study/practice. No? A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #241,654 by tuberculosis 1/17/06 1:59:53 PM Reply	Its not for sale you have to learn popular songs off the radio by ear - maybe grabbing a cassette. By the time they consider publishing them (if at all), they are old news and off the charts. Public performance, BTW is compensated at the venue level by ASCAP or BMI memberships. The venue owners are expected (threatened) to join one of these publishing orgs and their membership money is distributed among the songwriters. So its not like they're not getting paid at all. They just want another income stream I think. I remain adamant that only paid performances are worthy of compensation and use of charts for study and personal pleasure ought to be free. Performances include mechanical performances (playing a CD) in a place of business (like a coffee house). Good artists copy, great artists steal. All artists are outlaws it seems. Well - so be it. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #241,657 by drewk 1/17/06 2:05:58 PM Reply	Historical accident Once Upon a Time, entertainment was done on a much smaller scale than we're used to. Like one house at a time. The only way to recover money from the people doing this was to get it when they bought the sheet music. Today, it's the opposite. You're much more likely to get your entertainment via recorded music, or at a public venue. Either of which already gets your money for the "artist". (Chyeah, you mean for the label.) So yes, they're shooting themselves in the foot for a short term gain. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #241,665 by ben_tilly 1/17/06 6:09:20 PM Reply	You are grotesquely exaggerating. Neither the law nor the RIAA say that copies cannot be made. They are saying that copies should only be made by those who are legally authorized to make them. In other words it is a legal monopoly, not an outright ban. In theory if there exists a large enough demand for this music in written form, then it will be worth people's while to provide that. For personal reasons some musicians may not want to cooperate, but there is still a large body of legal written work available to learn from. Perhaps the music that you want to learn is not there, but other music is. Heck, I am not a musician but I happen to own several books of legally published music. It is easy to find other books from a variety of genres. I'm sure that your employer would be able to sell you some. So it is not just in theory that this legal market exists. As I said, not everything that you want will be available. But it is available, at an inconvenient but doable cost. Whether you agree with this law or not is a different issue. Plenty of people disagree with copyright and it has always been widely violated. (In fact there is even a legal doctrine on when it is OK to violate copyright.) My point is that under the law, the RIAA is clearly in the right here. And it isn't "under the law because they got an absurd bill passed." It is a pretty basic and well-established part of the law. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

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