World's stupidest math questions

Post #24,138 by marlowe 1/13/02 2:30:13 PM Reply	World's stupidest math questions [link\|http://www.miami.com/herald/content/news/local/broward/digdocs/057968.htm\|Brought to courtesy of the American public school system] Excerpt: In the elementary school textbook Everyday Mathematics, a section at the end of each chapter gives students ``Time to Reflect.'' Gifted fifth-graders in Broward County schools answer questions such as: ``If math were a color, it would be ----------, because ----------.'' Or: ``Do you think multiplication is easy or hard? Explain.'' This is not your father's math textbook. Or even your older brother's. Time to Reflect is a small part of Everyday Mathematics' unconventional curriculum, but some disgruntled parents and educators believe it is indicative of a greater problem. They are taking sides in a national debate dubbed ``The Math Wars,'' that goes to the heart of how kids should learn mathematics. I say: If institutional idiocy were a flavor, it would taste like dog shit. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
Post #24,143 by Ashton 1/13/02 3:48:36 PM Reply	Did you catch Ben T's exc. link re math teaching in another forum? This link: [link\|http://www.marco-learningsystems.com/pages/kline/prof.html\|Let's go to the radix er root cause] Riiight - what color would FUD be? (EZ - brownish & slimy) What color Billy's character (EZ - kinda yellowish-green) Ashton Brown-ish but not slimy.
Post #24,177 by marlowe 1/13/02 7:36:31 PM Reply	Just recently had time to look at it The author states the obvious and in a clear and passionate voice. That's not a bad thing, as far as it goes. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
Post #24,156 by Meerkat 1/13/02 5:26:18 PM Reply	With the great love of maths that I have... (not) ...I see much more sense in answering those questions than solving quadratic equations. Maths being a colour? Granted, that is odd. On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #24,164 by marlowe 1/13/02 6:13:20 PM Reply	Math is purely a means to an end for me. I've forgotten most of the math I ever knew, for the simple reason that I never found a use for most of it. Now that I'm getting into more signal processing sort of work, I'm having to relearn stuff. But it doesn't excite me as an end in itself. For me, an abstraction is nothing unless it has an identifiable connection to everyday experience. But answering stupid questions? What purpose does that serve? What does it matter what color algebra is, or how I spent my summer vacation? That's not even touchy-feely. It's like a parody of touchy-feely. I'd rather spend the time relearning bits and pieces of math. At least I have an idea what I intend to accomplish with that. And I get to do graphs in Excel. That's always fun. I vary a setting, and measure the standard deviation of the signal, plot it against the value of the setting, and if I'm lucky I get a bell curve. What do you call the standard deviation of a standard deviation? I gotta look that up. I'm sure there's a name for it. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
Post #24,169 by Ashton 1/13/02 6:42:31 PM 1/13/02 6:45:44 PM Reply	Ah yes.. but, in my experience, the best math teachers are ones who Do.. tie in some bit of exotica to everyday things. And so much of everyday things are tied into some.. math concept; clearly it is the language of the physical universe. (I get antsy when someone tries to extrapolate math principles into organic componds - and really skeptical when anyone tries to 'explain' human carbon-units with nice neat math theories. But they Will try..) Look at the 2:8:18 progressions of electron shells around nuclei - or the periodic chart itself. That was where 'math' began to live for me. Sounds as if you had one o' those 3x5 card readers for your math.. teechurs, and not Jaime Escalante [link\|http://www.paccd.cc.ca.us/75th/alumni/escalante/escalante.html\|Calculus - only the word is scary..] Anyway you slice it - math education in US sucks; it may suck a lot elesewhere - but it's the Murican version I have experience with. Recommended book: Innumeracy by John Allen Paulos. what (too) many Muricans are. If you've never said to self, about Some piece of math, "that's beautiful!" then.. sorry about what you've missed :( Ashton no mathematician, but need it every day.. PS To me your title is ~ "music is purely a means to an end" - y'know? Edited by Missing User 70 Jan. 13, 2002, 06:45:44 PM EST Expand All History
Post #24,211 by Ric Locke 1/13/02 11:13:59 PM Reply	Games and art forms There are several levels of math. By observation from outside (it certainly doesn't apply to me!) at the very top level, math is a sort of game; it need not have application to the real world, but if it works it gives the mathematician the same sort of feeling that finishing a really great sculpture or painting or piece of music does. A peculiar and highly constrained type of art. The one person I've ever met who unquestionably occupied that level -- a college prof years ago whose name I don't remember, and I'm sorry for that -- called everything below that level "arithmetic". Solving tensors is arithmetic? To him, yes, it was. He would probably have regarded "what color is math" as an interesting question. So once again we see touchy-feely in action. The kids are being asked questions that cannot be meaningfully answered at their level of understanding, because they shouldn't be denied the privileges and/or perquisites of the higher level; one should assume that they have that understanding and go from there. The result is, of course, that, blocked from understanding at any level due to the assumption that it isn't needed on the part of their teachers, they never truly understand anything; 2 + 2 needs electrical power, square roots will forever remain a mystery, and the difference between "calculus" and "magic spells" will never be seen. Regards, Ric
Post #24,233 by Ashton 1/14/02 5:55:07 AM Reply	I can almost agree with that characterization. That is, there is surely Some comparison with 'art', and at higher levels well.. they Are 'higher levels' because you can't get there without learning.. (then unlearning! really) a great deal, in preparation. Perhaps the same sort of emotional response occurs at the level of The New - after all, 'satisfaction' is purely an emotional experience in that part of the brain - the amygdala, at least as is currently 'thought'. But too much is unique to math: in particular re the very large ideas of Truth and of Proof. Only in math: can these ideals be accomplished, precisely because - the areas over which this truth and proof apply - are perfectly circumscribed. (We notice that these concepts become muddied with theological and other overlays in Any other 'area', I submit.. thus becoming blab words in most such discussions.) Maybe it's the most scientific 'art' or the most artful 'science' (?) - take yer pick. That it is a discipline is evident. My 3.14159 Zlotys Ashton IANAM, but I play one when around the innumerate - the arithmetic challenged
Post #24,173 by mhuber 1/13/02 7:23:09 PM Reply	I've met math teachers who could make those hard And that's not all that challenging: "OK, you say math would be green. Given {insert peculiar string of propositions here}, prove it." As for the other one, there is a fairly well known proof that there are no boring numbers. Hint: induction leading to reductio ad absurdum. ---- "You don't have to be right - just use bolded upper case" - annon.
Post #24,179 by marlowe 1/13/02 7:40:50 PM 1/13/02 7:51:33 PM Reply	I'd give him what for HE: What color is math, and why? ME: Well, I don't know what color your math is, but my math is blue, because I do it with a blue pen. And what's the point of discussing a stupid question like this, anyway? Shouldn't we learning Bayes' theorem or something else grounded in reality? Yes, I'll be on my way to the Principal's office now. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things. Edited by marlowe Jan. 13, 2002, 07:51:33 PM EST Expand All History
Post #24,308 by jb4 1/14/02 1:47:51 PM Reply	If math were a color... I say: If institutional idiocy were a flavor, it would taste like dog shit. Perhaps dog shit wrapped in a thin candy shell. That way, you might not recognize it at first, but it will still make you sick should you swallow it... jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #24,325 by tuberculosis 1/14/02 3:29:48 PM Reply	A Feeling Of Power By Asimov had a great impact on me when I read it as a youngster. I was just starting to rely on a calculator for arithmetic and this book, combined with watching my grandmother's mental math prowess applied to estimating her earnings in the stock market, convinced me to eschew the gadgets. I now tend to do most simple calculations in my head. Even celstial navigation problems I work on paper. More complex ones I estimate in my head using more rounded figures and do on paper if I need more precision. If there's a lot of calculating like figuring a mortgage or something like that, I resort to spreadsheets. While double checking that Asimov was the author of "A Feeling Of Power" I ran across this [link\|http://www.math.dartmouth.edu/~c18w99/\|course]: Mathematics and Science Fiction - The Fire in the Equations at Dartmouth. I would recommend that any math teacher make use of selections from the recommended reading list if she is trying to make the material feel "more real" to her students. The average hunter gatherer works 20 hours a week. The average farmer works 40 hours a week. The average programmer works 60 hours a week. What the hell are we thinking?
Post #24,348 by Ashton 1/14/02 5:14:20 PM Reply	Slide rule.. Seemed a reasonable compromise without surrendering to the false precision of a calculator - you had to carry the exponent in head (paper) = a necessity to consider orders of magnitude all along, thus a certain insurance against the folly of.. [cartoon] Guy in a factory is looking up at a conveyor bringing 'steering wheels' along. They are HUGE steering wheels. Supervisor sez to engineer nearby, Inches! you idiot.. INCHES* - not FEET !!!* [/cartoon] ..not to mention the lost Mars lander: METERS/mks you idiot <<< BTW - I try to keep it in the head mostly, too -- use it or lose it. Lotsa recent folks never quite got it to.. lose. :( A.
Post #24,357 by boxley 1/14/02 5:54:31 PM Reply	lack of cribbage can cause that Used to be when I played cribbage daily I could add subtract multiply prodigous number sequences. Since I dont play any more I have a hard time counting my change. Dont use it ya lose it. thanx, bill My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #24,392 by Ric Locke 1/14/02 11:26:54 PM Reply	BSJ Ah, yes, orders of magnitude. Fermi numbers, the only really easy way to do horseback calculations. Possible to really impress the innumerate, if you're inclined that way. We had a competition in high school, in the early sixties, called "number sense". The idea was to develop methods for quick calculation of estimates and even precise values. 10/9=11, 100/99=101; place the decimal point correctly. No need to memorize the times 11 table; 11*ab = a a+b b. This was a statewide contest with lower levels, total of three; I never went very far up the ladder, but the habit has stayed with me. Combine with a little practical knowledge (a simple concrete slab is four inches thick, or 1/9 of a yard; how many cubic yards to do the slab? Impress your friends!) Do you know Terry Pratchett? His caricature of the early-1800s architect and planner, "Capability" Brown, is "Bloody Stupid" Johnson; one of BSJ's triumphs is the fish pond at the palace, which is a hundred yards long and an inch wide. Regards, Ric
Post #24,400 by Ashton 1/15/02 4:35:33 AM Reply	Keep seein wry quotes by Pratchett.. Esp in the Mac forum Guess this means I gotta read something of his - anyone that acerbic has gotta have a few cluez. But he seems to have written so Much stuff.. Hmmm - wonder if he's a reincarnation of Philip K. Dick? Suggested first 2 or 3? Preferably with the nastiest takes on er standard social customs (I'd rather start with dessert ;-) On 'rounding' - I noticed some of the calc. tricks, but seem to just use variants of - if mult x 19? hell just do 20 and remember to subtract 1 (times whatever you multiplied by). Rarely used such stuff as cancelling out 9s for a check. Sloth. Which just confirms: knowing's not Enough! :-\ufffd Cheers, A.
Post #24,413 by Silverlock 1/15/02 8:45:46 AM Reply	Good Omens Co-written with Neil Gaiman and a furiously funny read. Take the movie "The Omen" and apply the dryest wit to it and you come somewhat near to describing the story. Except that description doesn't take into account the partnership of a demon and a devil, the appearance of Tibetan Lamas, spaceships, the Four Motorcyclists of the Apocalypse, the Other Four Motorcyclists of the Apocolypse or Sister Mary Loquacious (of the Order of Chattering Beryl). There have been reports for a while now that Terry Gilliam will direct a movie version of this story. Those reports have subsided since that colossal ripoff "Dogma" hit the screens. When I visit the aquarium, the same thought keeps running through my mind; Leemmmooonnn, Buuttteerrr, MMMmmmmmm good!
Post #24,417 by tjsinclair 1/15/02 9:43:16 AM Reply	Don't forget the Discworld series It constitutes most of his output and the every one is a satiric social commentary which just happens to be set on a 10,000 mile wide disc-shaped planet supported by four enormous elephants which are in turn standing on an even bigger tortoise. Oh, and it has wizards, gnomes, trolls, dwarves, witches, fairies, dragons, golems, vampires, werewolves and even some humans. And the Pratchett quotes have been coming from me..... Tom Sinclair Speaker-to-Suits "I know about people who talk about suffering for the common good. It's never bloody them! When you hear a man shouting "Forward, brave comrades!" you'll see he's the one behind the bloody big rock and the one wearing the only really arrow-proof helmet!" -- Rincewind gives a speech on politics. (Terry Pratchett, Interesting Times)
Post #24,535 by static 1/15/02 9:29:55 PM Reply	Reading Pratchett. If you're curious about his writing and don't know if you will want to fork out for 25+ books, then I suggest you start with "Pyramids". It nicely captures both the city-books (i.e. those set in Ankh-Morpork) and the non-city books. If you are sure you'll probably get the whole lot, start with "The Colour of Magic" and hang in there past the first 3 or 4. Like most fantasy worlds, it takes a few books for the shape of it to settle down. Most things are settled in place by "Sourcery" (5th book). OTOH, some of his early stuff remains quite good and gives you a good taste, as well. "Strata" is a particularly good example. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #24,553 by Ric Locke 1/16/02 12:06:27 AM 1/16/02 12:08:25 AM Reply	Re: Reading Pratchett. Heh. Unless I miss my guess, Ashton should start with either Soul Music or Moving Pictures. It'd be out of order chronologically, but my take on his thought processes brings those up right away. He'll especially enjoy Mr. Clete -- dammit, I can't find my copy of Soul Music; I wanted to quote that bit [there's a really neat motorcycle ride in it, too] After that I'd suggest Mort ["Death comes to us all. When Death came to Mortimer, he offered him a job."] or Equal Rites. The wizard's staff goes to the eighth son of his eighth son, but if you're in a hurry mistakes can be made... Going back to The Colour of Magic to start at the beginning should be reserved for after one has skipped around in the middle a bit, and the latest ones should not be read without the background. The Turtle Moves! (Later edit: Pratchett is much like Gary Larson -- you can tell a lot about a person by which of the books he or she likes best. My personal favorites are Jingo and Johnny and the Bomb) Regards, Ric Edited by Ric Locke Jan. 16, 2002, 12:08:25 AM EST Expand All History
Post #24,580 by static 1/16/02 5:50:37 AM Reply	Mmm. I agree that "Moving Pictures" would work on itss own but I think "Soul Music" won't work quite as well if you don't already know a few things. But other ones that work on their own would include "Small Gods". "Wyrd Sisters" would also work, especially if you wanted to "read a few in the middle" before commiting oneself! "Mort" would work for the same reason. I agree that the latest ones need prior novels. "The Truth" for instance, is just not as good if you haven't already encountered Vetinari numerous times. Or Ankh-Morpork's Guilds. Or Vimes. Or Slant, for that matter. Or the Clacks. Or even the Bursar. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #24,558 by Ashton 1/16/02 2:59:09 AM Reply	Thanks all, for the intro.. And Rick's likely right re the 'samplers'. Generally I find that the way someone writes about motorcycles - is a kind of Rorschak. (Actually the best ~ description for the non-rider I've read, was by a female rider maybe in her late 20s. Mainly - she was a good writer. But also an obviously competent cyclist.) 'Course other folks can attach the same significance to their fav topics too - but I find cycles overlap into much that Muricans imagine to be their version of Mexican machismo, so the concept branches into other social in(s)anities. Fact is: it ain't about gender BS at all IMexcellentO. You can See God.. at 10/10ths ;-) So I've got the Pratchett tyro list ready for next foray to the local used paperback emporium, about the largest library of such around.. Hmmm why do they have So many copies of Ishtar? Good Omens added - Hey! if Terry Gilliam does it, why.. we might see some Vincents in there. He be Brit. One Brit production of 1984 employed some members of the Vincent OC to ride around on Thought Police bikes: using slightly fibre-glassed up Series D machines. These featured full weather enclosure.. which worked - but natch some thought that was Too scooter-like :( So you could also order them naked. (Nobody ever made a scooter like those..) If anyone notices Gilliam actually going into production - please give a holler! Ashton If Mark Twain was our (US) Homer.. maybe Philip K. Dick was our Master of Extrapolations ?? News Clowns Indeed! - perfect prescience. Then there was Potiphar Breen: for the statisticians amongst us..
Post #24,355 by CRConrad 1/14/02 5:51:21 PM Reply	O'course t'was Isaac; but "book"? Short story, a few pages?
Post #24,364 by tuberculosis 1/14/02 7:07:48 PM Reply	Meant "story". Yer right, it was really a short story (so much of Asimov was) just a few pages. The average hunter gatherer works 20 hours a week. The average farmer works 40 hours a week. The average programmer works 60 hours a week. What the hell are we thinking?

Welcome to IWETHEY!