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New Not just IT
Microelectronics, too. Even here, my employer has been hiring people at ridiculously reduced wages (and it's an insurance company!) - People take the jobs from desperation.

And - predictions of inflation drops? Inflation will drop all right - but ONLY because most people can't afford the goods AT ALL. That is NOT an indication of a healthy economy. It's an indication that people have been tapped out.

If you want to say that the economy is gonna rise because it's hit rock bottom and has no place else to go, I say "no". We can sink WAY lower. I fear that if more profit-taking is encouraged at the expense of the workers, it WILL get worse. A government that only works for short-term profit taking, and NOT investment in the future, investment in the workers, infrastructure if you will, is the worst thing that can happen to this country - and THAT'S what we've got. Add to that the fact that we are hemmoraging money into an elective war, and we've got trouble. No need to theorize, though. We'll see whch of us is right (God help us!) - the view from the ground, or the vew from the mansion.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New I think it's going to go something like this...
1) Interest rates will keep rising, slowly, for the next couple of years. Average people with high consumer-debt burdens will be hurt.
2) The housing bubble will stop inflating and "investors" chasing quick profits will move into stocks again. People who have to sell homes bought in the last ~3-5 years will be hurt. The stock market will go through another mini-boom, fed by mergers and acquisitions. "Day trading" might even see a renaissance, but as before small traders will lose their shirts.
3) Heavy manufacturing, airlines, auto manufacturing, home construction, etc., will continue to be under heavy pressure. Union jobs in manufacturing and in government will be under increasing pressure to accept lower wages and greater financial contributions to benefits.
4) Immigration will continue to put pressure on wages in the service and construction sectors, and off-shoring will continue to put pressure on white-collar wages.
5) We're sending huge amounts of money overseas every day. E.g. In September, the average cost of an imported barrel of oil was [link|http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/petroleum_marketing_monthly/current/txt/tables01.txt|$58.79]. In that month we imported about [link|http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_wkly_dc_NUS-Z00_mbblpd_w.htm|10.2 Mbbl/day]. That's $600 M per day. There is no indication that that number will do anything but increase in the next few years.

Many of these changes are probably inevitible, but that doesn't mean we don't have a responsiblity to think about what it means for the future and what we should be doing to preserve our standard of living.

I don't think the next few years are going to be a good time economically for the country. Those who have money to lose and who can afford to be in the stock market may do very well. JQ Public who has 20 years in at John Deere or Ford or Boeing is going to be hurting.

Many areas of the country are hurting very badly now. E.g., Dayton, Ohio is suffering terribly due to problems with General Motors and Delphi and due to problems with the city government. Many parts of the midwest have a terrible problem with methamphetamine addiction and crime. We shouldn't just shrug it off and tell everyone to move to Alabama to get a job at Hyundai or to Mexico to work for VW.

We, as a country, need to be thinking about how we make the transition from manufacturing and services with $50-$75/hr wages (with benefits) to $25-$30/hr wages. We're not going to keep our standard of living by having huge swaths of the workforce have to take 2-3 jobs to have the same income.

We need to be investing in new technologies - and in more than just medicine, better CGI for movies, and music players! We're not going to win by racing China, Afghanistan, Mali and Burma to the bottom of the wage scale. We've got to invest in our strengths - smart people; invention; the world's broadest technology base; innovative capital markets; etc.

Why don't we have an efficient, modern, fast, nationwide rail system? Why don't we have an electrical grid in the nation's capital that doesn't suffer from frequent [link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/metro/specials/manholes/|manhole explosions] and a sewer system that doesn't [link|http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=451&sid=608547|dump raw sewage into the rivers when it rains]? Why don't we have traffic lights that adjust for increasing traffic flow during the day? Why do we have to cross our fingers every summer that the electric grid will survive a heat wave or that an ice storm won't cut power to hundreds of thousands of homes for weeks? Why? Because we have been too short-sighted.

I think this time is different than the previous few decades. Just looking at the raw inflation, GDP growth, unemployment, etc., numbers doesn't show the stress that the economy is under. Japan is coming out of its doldrums. Germany is getting back on its feet, and China continues to grow like gangbusters (one has to wonder though, how long will it last?). When our economy slows down again, as it will, the rest of the world won't have to wait for us the way they did in the past. We could easily be left behind unless we invest in our future.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Another Scott for President!
You have my vote! :-)

Peace,
Amy

"It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
New Microelectronics????
We've NEVER held much in that game. Thats been to China and those areas for years already. How can you export a job that was never here in the first place?



If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New "NEVER"?
TI, Fairchild, Motorola, RCA, GE, IBM, Western Electric, ... all had substantial semiconductor manufacturing operations. There's still a lot of defense-related stuff that is still done in the USA.

The transistor was invented at Bell Labs. The integrated circuit was invented at TI (and Fairchild). DRAM was invented at Intel, as was the general purpose microprocessor. Intel was a memory powerhouse before they were a CPU powerhouse.

NEVER is a bit too strong...

Cheers,
Scott.
New Never is what adults say
when they mean a "very long time".

We used to make TV sets too.

I will certainly not argue that we need to reclaim a manufacturing base in this country, especially in base industry like steel. One thing that will have to be corrected very soon is healthcare. It is one of the main issues really dragging on employment in "good" sectors of the economy.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
     Inflation at 16.7%? - (inthane-chan) - (120)
         Not inflation - (bepatient)
         yeah, dont buy gold when its high and distrust - (boxley) - (118)
             Figured it was something like that. - (inthane-chan) - (117)
                 economics is reasonably simple - (boxley) - (116)
                     Yep - Repos in power, Economy down, Dems in - E up - (tuberculosis) - (115)
                         old sayin g repos depression demos war - (boxley)
                         Thats pretty funny - (bepatient) - (113)
                             Oh yeah. The economy has 'recovered' - (imric)
                             The numbers support it - (ben_tilly)
                             You mean these numbers? - (tuberculosis) - (110)
                                 Bah. Who needs facts when you have dogma? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                     My karma ran over his dogma -NT - (tuberculosis)
                                 First of all, the stock market is not the economy - (bepatient) - (107)
                                     You'll have to do better - (tuberculosis) - (21)
                                         Tom Toles: 12/25/2005. 39 kB .img - (Another Scott)
                                         Your first link - (bepatient) - (19)
                                             One indicator supports it - (ben_tilly) - (17)
                                                 Dont know too much about that but this year was the - (boxley)
                                                 And this is due to a late - (bepatient) - (15)
                                                     Re: And this is due to ---- projections R'us? - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                         And your anectodal - (bepatient)
                                                     Those indicators indicate a likely net loss of disposable $$ - (tuberculosis) - (12)
                                                         ???? - (bepatient) - (10)
                                                             Not just IT - (imric) - (5)
                                                                 I think it's going to go something like this... - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                     Another Scott for President! - (imqwerky)
                                                                 Microelectronics???? - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                     "NEVER"? - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                         Never is what adults say - (bepatient)
                                                             Then I can't afford the job I have - (tuberculosis)
                                                             Actually our whole economy is under threat - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                                 I absolutely agree - (bepatient)
                                                                 Well said. - (a6l6e6x)
                                                         dittos on the fixed mortgage, you greedy on housing - (boxley)
                                             we all know capitalism is selling surplus - (boxley)
                                     And the PEOPLE, Bill? - (imric) - (84)
                                         You keep railing on this - (bepatient) - (83)
                                             How people feel is the only worthwhile indicator - (tuberculosis) - (71)
                                                 Ed Zachary. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                     I can't be quiet any longer - (imqwerky) - (1)
                                                         Salaries of 60-100K are excellent money. - (mmoffitt)
                                                 I have money to blow on cool shit and trips or I don't. - (boxley) - (67)
                                                     But it's not just "his" field, man. - (mmoffitt) - (66)
                                                         Very funny - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                             Funny numbers - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                                                 And in the same amount of time - (bepatient)
                                                         at $60 a barrel the oil sector looks promising - (boxley) - (62)
                                                             Sometimes choices are limited. - (Another Scott)
                                                             Yeea, it was move and work or stay and wait for bank repo - (tuberculosis) - (60)
                                                                 So? I have done that 3 times in 5 years - (boxley) - (59)
                                                                     And there should be something in between. - (inthane-chan) - (5)
                                                                         forced equity distribution is stealing ya should know better - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                             And if we are to escape the bonds of our past... - (inthane-chan) - (3)
                                                                                 I know you have some training - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                     Bwah? - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                                                                                         {chortle} - (Ashton)
                                                                     Me too - sick of being migrant worker - (tuberculosis) - (52)
                                                                         you are trying to fix yesterdays problem - (boxley) - (51)
                                                                             Deregulation fsked Delta Pilots. Not their union. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (50)
                                                                                 Keep telling yourself that. - (bepatient) - (49)
                                                                                     Right. - (mmoffitt) - (48)
                                                                                         I might be missing something - (drewk)
                                                                                         Less competition? - (ben_tilly) - (38)
                                                                                             Really? - (mmoffitt) - (37)
                                                                                                 There have been some casualties but... - (ben_tilly)
                                                                                                 In their place is - (bepatient) - (35)
                                                                                                     Independence and ATA? You're kidding, right? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (34)
                                                                                                         Why would i be kidding? - (bepatient) - (33)
                                                                                                             Don't forget crappy service. - (Another Scott) - (18)
                                                                                                                 Those things exist - (bepatient) - (13)
                                                                                                                     You missed my point. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                                                                                                         I more "bypassed" it that missed it. - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                                                             My TDI wagon gets 50-51 mpg highway. $25-$30 each way. ;-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                                                                                                 Would I complain of seat pitch... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                                                     Yeah, the backseat is tight. - (Another Scott)
                                                                                                                     WHAT? - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                                                                         I suspect it's something like this. - (Another Scott)
                                                                                                                         You may want to check with a real person - (bepatient) - (5)
                                                                                                                             Mea Culpa - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                                                                                                 I am talking fares The People pay. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                                     But business class pays for the people - (ben_tilly)
                                                                                                                                     Business Class is C or J or D or Z - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                                                         There's no "class" at all in Fort Wayne. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                 Driving > Flying - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                                                                                                     Got iPod? -NT - (admin) - (2)
                                                                                                                         Ar, and an iTrip. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                                                             ++fsckinga -NT - (inthane-chan)
                                                                                                             ATA's bankrupt, for instance. - (mmoffitt) - (13)
                                                                                                                 So? - (bepatient) - (12)
                                                                                                                     Heh. - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                                                                                                                         So are you officially changing your point now? - (bepatient) - (10)
                                                                                                                             he officially changed his point by not offering $39 - (boxley) - (8)
                                                                                                                                 :0) - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                                                                                     AvGas is cheaper - (drewk) - (6)
                                                                                                                                         Show me the brewery, dairy, olive oil or corn oil company - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                                                                                             There's this saying I like - (drewk) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                 Let me see if I'm hearing you right. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                     More like we're screwing ourselves, but close enough - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                         I do my part. I don't even own a car. - (Silverlock)
                                                                                                                                                 .oO0 Brevity Award 0Oo. ___with 3 K-Y packets. - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                             FWA's available destinations and carriers have been hit. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                         You are so wrong here I don't know how to respond - (bepatient) - (7)
                                                                                             easy response, the next bash Mikey is the taxi driver - (boxley) - (6)
                                                                                                 Make sure.. - (bepatient) - (5)
                                                                                                     OTOH - (imric) - (4)
                                                                                                         Thats true, BUT - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                                             Don't give up your day job.... :-) -NT - (jbrabeck)
                                                                                                             OK.. That___earns you a challenge - - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                                                                 ICpartialLRPD - (drewk)
                                             Which kind of average? - (ben_tilly)
                                             I know that one buddy has been looking constantly - (imric) - (2)
                                                 *grin* OT - (imric)
                                                 Lots of us moved against our wishes -NT - (tuberculosis)
                                             Ah, the Logical Positivism of Econ catechism. - (Ashton) - (6)
                                                 Nicely confused - (bepatient)
                                                 its not like its a new concept, read yer history - (boxley) - (4)
                                                     That was then. - (Ashton) - (3)
                                                         that is now, people dont change - (boxley) - (2)
                                                             No, that is not 'people' - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                 my kids are all feral, good trainer, not :-( -NT - (boxley)

CRC error. Reload.
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