I care, that's who.

Post #23,706 by nking 1/9/02 10:41:11 PM Reply	I care, that's who. If I am to buy an Imac, I'd like it to use the same ports as a PC. USB 2.0 soon will be a standard on new PC Systems. If the PC has it, the Mac should have it. USB has come a long way, and almost everything is USB now, Scanners, Printers, Digital Cameras, PalmOS device docking stations, Joysticks, mice, keyboards, etc. Firewire is nice, but USB has become standard for the PC Market. In fact, wasn't that why they picked it for the iMac? "In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
Post #23,708 by Meerkat 1/9/02 10:47:58 PM Reply	Quite the opposite. Firewire is nice, but USB has become standard for the PC Market. In fact, wasn't that why they picked it for the iMac? When the iMac was launched, there was pretty much nothing out there in the way of USB peripherals. Apparently USB was something Intel was keen on getting PC makers to implement for years, but it never happened 'til the iMac popularised/mandatorised* it. * © Language-manglers'R'us... As far as high-bandwidth peripheral connections go, I reckon FireWire has achieved 'critical mass' already. On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #23,775 by nking 1/10/02 1:24:40 PM Reply	You may have a point The iMac used it as a standard and got rid of all legacy ports. Meanwhile in the PC market USB ports were already standard, but legacy ports were included on most PC systems. Why make a USB device when 99% of the PC market still has serial and parallel ports? I think that the iMac was a factor, but not the only factor in getting companies to make USB devices. "In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
Post #23,777 by tuberculosis 1/10/02 1:44:02 PM Reply	NextGen Peripherals are going to be FireWire. The ones that need speed that is. The current USB hard drives are painful to use. They are like floppy slow. The firewire drives are a joy by comparison. The iPod dropped into a unique place in the market because it used FireWire to transfer files - the entire iPod can be loaded in seconds with a huge song library. The other mp3 players that used USB take something like half an hour to do the same thing. Firewire has a roadmap that extends to 1600MB/s. USB 2 is 480, Firewire currently runs at 400. I don't need my mouse and keyboard to run any faster. I do want my storage and audio/video devices to run much faster. USB 2 just seems like mud in the water.
Post #23,787 by cforde 1/10/02 2:53:54 PM Reply	Yesterdays technology tomorrow David K. Every has some well argued thoughts on [link\|http://www.mackido.com/Hardware/USB2.html\|USB 2.0]. The [link\|http://www.usb.org/faq/ans2.html#q8\|USB FAQ] is telling too. My uninformed speculation is that USB 2.0 is Intel's way of limiting PPC competition. If they can argue that they have something as good or better than Firewire, and everyone has it, then points for them and against Apple. Plus it gets them out paying royalties to Apple for Firewire ports on their motherboards. Firewire and USB 1.x are already very well established. What compelling reason does a vendor have to take the time and expense to add USB 2.0 support to a product? While USB 2.0 is likely to replace USB 1.x in the long term, I can't see that USB anything will ever supplant Firewire. Have fun, Carl Forde
Post #23,848 by nking 1/10/02 11:28:38 PM Reply	USB and Firewire They are sort of like IDE and SCSI, sure SCSI is faster but IDE is more common and built into most motherboards. I think the fee Apple is charging may scare away most motherboard makers, most likely PC systems will have Firewire via an add on card. "In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
Post #23,915 by tuberculosis 1/11/02 12:45:34 PM Reply	The computers aren't driving this Its the periphs. Firewire is appearing on all the new cameras and soon on all the new audio devices. Its going to be the foundation of the new midi standard. If the PC makers want to enable customers to use these peripherals, they'd better add Firewire ports because I don't think Sony is going to put 17 different interfaces on every camera they make. The average hunter gatherer worked 20 hours a week. The average farmer worked 40 hours a week. The average programmer works 60 hours a week. What the hell are we thinking?
Post #23,922 by imric 1/11/02 12:58:31 PM Reply	Firewire? Firewire is appearing on all the new cameras and soon on all the new audio devices Hmmm. I've seen more USB peripherals - but then, only 2 of the 8 machines that are on my home network are Macs... Do you have some examples? Its going to be the foundation of the new midi standard. I'd heard this - and yes, it may drive PC makers to include Firewire... But it may just deepen the 'artist's niche' that Macs have been stereotyped into. A good thing for Apple, but will PC makers try to compete with Apple on it's percieved home turf? Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #23,932 by nking 1/11/02 1:52:25 PM Reply	More USB than Firewire I too have seen more USB than Firewire devices like Digital Cameras, PDAs, Digital Recorders, etc. Maybe one day Firewire will be used more than USB, but so far I haven't seen it as being so yet. "In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
Post #23,942 by cforde 1/11/02 2:30:51 PM Reply	Firewire! Broadly speaking USB provides lower cost/low performance data transfer while Firewire provides higher cost/high performance data transfer. In a price sensitive consumer market vendors want the lowest cost option that provides the required feature. For data transfer, that's USB. There are MP3 players available with 5G, and larger, drives. Yes you can fill them using USB but you need to schedule it overnight. Batch jobs just aren't consumer friendly. Apple brought this point home with the new iPod. 5 gigs, 12 minutes. That dramatically improves the usability of the device. And the iPod has shown that consumers are willing to pay for it. I fully expect to see other devices with large data transfer requirements move to Firewire soon. USB will remain for devices with low data transfer requirements. Firewire is not just for artists. Many consumer devices already use it. I'm convinced more will. If the PC makers want to connect to them, they will start including Firewire in the machines. Have fun, Carl Forde
Post #23,950 by SpiceWare 1/11/02 3:06:02 PM Reply	I think he means camcorders? Lots of camcorders have firewire. Darrell Spice, Jr. [link\|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/\|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
Post #23,954 by imric 1/11/02 3:46:25 PM 1/11/02 3:48:19 PM Reply	Makes sense - I've never owned an actual camcorder, myself, though. Camcorders certainly qualify for the high-data-rate type appliances Carl talked about... Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win. Edited by imric Jan. 11, 2002, 03:48:19 PM EST Expand All History
Post #23,964 by tuberculosis 1/11/02 6:26:48 PM Reply	These! [link\|http://www.orangemicro.com/ibot.html\|http://www.orangemicro.com/ibot.html] [link\|http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0009/20.sony.shtml\|http://maccentral.m...0.sony.shtml] [link\|http://www.dvcentral.org/Reviews/jyvs200u.html\|http://www.dvcentra...yvs200u.html] [link\|http://www.firewireworld.com/news/2000/06/2000613/sonyminidv.shtml\|http://www.firewire...minidv.shtml] The average hunter gatherer worked 20 hours a week. The average farmer worked 40 hours a week. The average programmer works 60 hours a week. What the hell are we thinking?
Post #23,968 by nking 1/11/02 6:36:16 PM Reply	OT your tagline The average hunter gatherer worked 20 hours a week. The average farmer worked 40 hours a week. The average programmer works 60 hours a week. What the hell are we thinking? It was the PHBs that thought we could handle 60 hour workweeks. That was their way of doubling or tripling our workload to do the job of two or three people, which saves the company money but makes our lives as programmers a living hell. "In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
Post #23,969 by nking 1/11/02 6:36:49 PM Reply	OT your tagline The average hunter gatherer worked 20 hours a week. The average farmer worked 40 hours a week. The average programmer works 60 hours a week. What the hell are we thinking? It was the PHBs that thought we could handle 60 hour workweeks. That was their way of doubling or tripling our workload to do the job of two or three people, which saves the company money but makes our lives as programmers a living hell. "In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
Post #23,990 by imric 1/11/02 9:41:56 PM Reply	All very nice! I'm always in favor of better tech... I can only hope that (technical excellence)=demand... Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

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