Post #23,645
1/9/02 1:36:36 PM
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Will US Citizens have to give up some more freedoms?
On the news they are talking about creating a National ID card issued by the Federal Government and given out by the State DMV. This card would have your information on it, a thumb print, and would be able to be used to check your background. So basically it is a Big Brother card, when used it can be used to check your background. So they know if you have any medical issues, mental health issues, or criminal issues. True, it can be used to catch the bad guys, but it can also be abused and false information might creep into the system if your name is simular to someone else's. If my name was "John Smith", say, I'd see what I can to legally change it.
Anyway I've noticed on the job searching that companies are asking for more references than they had before, and seem to want more details. Perhaps they will also run a background check? I am told that it will take a few months to do this. I am not worried because in 1996, I passed a federal government background check for security clearance and I haven't done anything wrong. The only thing that could be held against me is being sick, and suffering from a depression, if they are able to access medical records.
Our airport security, I am told, is still not strict enough to keep real terrorists out. But the stricter they get, the longer people will have to wait to get on a plane.
Next thing you know, they will try to take guns away from US Citizens who own them?
"In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
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Post #23,662
1/9/02 4:30:25 PM
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National ID card has been on the agenda
of Authoritarians.. since Hollerith's idea spawned the first punch card (inspired by the Jacquard? loom).
Now if you're asking ~ what % of the Murican Peepul are so ovine that they will surrender even more of the Constitution or so ignorant as to not notice the trend (?)
I dunno, Norm - whadda You think? What would be Your response to such a dictat - say next Tuesday?
Go along? Hoping that someday. Reeel soon now.. you might be able to ask, please Sir, may I have my country back? Umm if it isn't too inconvenient, that is.
Or was yours just fanciful musing on a rhetorical question..?
Ashton BTW - will you answer *any* question - to get a job? Or if not - will you explain in clear language, why you decline to answer? Then move towards the door (?)
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Post #23,710
1/9/02 10:56:14 PM
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it is a really bad trend
they just passed laws that will limit the disibility claims of the workers for minior disabilities. Which means that you may not be able to claim carpal tunnel syndrome because the PHBs had you entering data for 80 hours a week. Type in those wrist splits, or hand in your resignation papers.
Our representivies in Government are not looking out for us, they are looking out for the corporations. Each day a little bit of the Constitution goes away. Slowly but surely it goes away. Before it was that copyright act that did away with "Fair Use". Who knows what else they will try to slip past? If the US Public hasn't noticed it by now, they will never notice it.
"Please sir, may I have my country back?" Too late, they already have it. Corporate Greed has bought the best country they can buy, and they already have their puppets in power passing laws that benefit the firms, and give less rights to the citizens.
Just watch, more Pro-Corp laws will be passed. Or will the US Public believe me when they get rounded up into camps? :)
"In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
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Post #24,070
1/12/02 5:14:54 PM
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"But sir..."
"...I can't 'hand-in' my resignation papers, because I can't grasp them to hand them in...."
jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
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Post #23,767
1/10/02 12:15:36 PM
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I'm definately not an Authoritarian...
not even Lutheran... But I'm not as paranoid about a national ID card as I perhaps should be? The fear that I've heard expressed is that if a national database was kept, then potential employers, law enforcement agencies, etc.. could know in an instant how criminal/disabled/mentally ill I really am... well, if they kept a true database, the potential employers would soon realize they can't really discriminate because almost EVERYONE is screwed up!!! The pool of non-criminal, non-disabled, non-mentally ill, etc... would be so small that economics would dictate that they would have to pick the lesser of the many "evils"... Right?
I don't know quite how to feel about a national ID card. I can see some definate benefits to keeping certain individuals from getting drivers licenses, credit cards, flight training, citizenship, etc... I mean, I already carry a state issued driver's license, a Social Security card, etc... Say, wait a minute. I have an idea!
We could force everyone who comes to this country (even for visits) to register for college in the US... I am absolutely convinced that had Bin Laden graduated from my school, the Alumni Association would have found his ass in a few days... Really.
Just a few thoughts,
Screamer
"I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..."
P. Townshend
"Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones
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Post #23,772
1/10/02 1:11:05 PM
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why issue a national id card when according to the Supreme
Court you are under no obligation to carry any form of identification? Of course you would need it to fly but think of how many people without drivers licenses are still driving? thanx, bill
My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
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Post #23,838
1/10/02 10:10:27 PM
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Of course, you can't even cash a check...
if you don't carry one... But if you have a checking account, you can get a credit card, and noone ever seems to check for an ID when you use that bad boy... Something really screwed up here, isn't it?
I wish just once that people would request to see some ID when I put $1000.00 charges on my VISA account. Seriously. The plain and simple fact of the matter is that credit card companies want to be "ripped off" so they can justify their outrageous interest rates, IMHO.
Back to the crux... I fear the GIGO involved in the entry - way too much opportunity for graft and misuse. I don't necessarily disagree with the concept, I just don't trust society enough to make it happen. Just a few too many greedy bastards... Just my take.
Just a few thoughts,
Screamer
"Once she walked with umpteen million lovers face between her legs, now he's cool and stifled and it's she who has to beg. Slit skirts..."
P. Townshend
"Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones
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Post #23,877
1/11/02 8:28:09 AM
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Re: Checking for ID with VISA
I've been using VISA -- first as credit cards now as debit cards -- for ~16 years. For the last ~12 of that, instead of signing the back, I wrote "See ID".
In that time, I've bought TV's, stereos, car repairs, lots of things at several hundred dollars. The only times anyone asks to see my ID? I'm buying socks.
We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html|Thomas Friedman]
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Post #24,147
1/13/02 4:12:51 PM
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Checkbook register
There is exactly one teller I know of who refuses to accept a check until it is duly recorded in the customer's register (that little book in your checkbook where you are supposed to record such things). Somewhat eccentric first generation immigrant German (or thereabout) woman who runs the Purple Foot winemaking supply shop.
Seems to me that, if privacy is no issue, checking the register would be a pretty good way to verify a check. Only accept if there is a running total and the last recorded check is one number back from the current one. Better than the goofy "check numbers over 300 only" rule I've run into. Yes, it can be fudged, but it is more work than most crooks will do. And most checks bounce due to bad (read "non-existant") record-keeping, not criminal intent.
---- "You don't have to be right - just use bolded upper case" - annon.
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Post #24,161
1/13/02 6:02:18 PM
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Credit card security
There's a few things at work here.
First, the vendor should be the one verifying your ID, they're the one on the hook for it. Of course, that's usually the corporate owner, not the $5.50/hr counter help. Your own loss is capped at $50 (and that's usually waived). The bank passes through to the vendor.
Note that realtime credit card checking does work, and is pretty efficient. One profiling system I ran across suggests that the checks are run within 30-60 seconds of purchase (and since most purchases are pre-approved, that's before you're out the door). A friend once got a call on his cell phone as he walked out the parking lot. They'd just bought gas, then about $40K of toys (a few servers). This is apparently a pretty good profile -- based on AI and neural nets, BTW.
The current system is based around the principle of stop-loss. Once a card goes wiggy, it stops approving. Even a determined theif is likely to only get a few thousand dollars out of the account tops. Overall "leakage" is on the order of a few percent.
This has interesting correspondences to anti-terror security measures. If it's possible to detect and isolate individuals and groups quickly, we'll still end up with some actions, but little effective capability. A movement that has a few tens of thousands of individuals at best, and loses large numbers of these in each engagement, has little sustaining ability. The most crucial part of the equation is a world in which the police forces can work effectively -- meaning no safe-harbors. The current approach seems to be fumbling toward this ideal.
-- Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
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Post #24,162
1/13/02 6:02:27 PM
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Credit card security
There's a few things at work here.
First, the vendor should be the one verifying your ID, they're the one on the hook for it. Of course, that's usually the corporate owner, not the $5.50/hr counter help. Your own loss is capped at $50 (and that's usually waived). The bank passes through to the vendor.
Note that realtime credit card checking does work, and is pretty efficient. One profiling system I ran across suggests that the checks are run within 30-60 seconds of purchase (and since most purchases are pre-approved, that's before you're out the door). A friend once got a call on his cell phone as he walked out the parking lot. They'd just bought gas, then about $40K of toys (a few servers). This is apparently a pretty good profile -- based on AI and neural nets, BTW.
The current system is based around the principle of stop-loss. Once a card goes wiggy, it stops approving. Even a determined theif is likely to only get a few thousand dollars out of the account tops. Overall "leakage" is on the order of a few percent.
This has interesting correspondences to anti-terror security measures. If it's possible to detect and isolate individuals and groups quickly, we'll still end up with some actions, but little effective capability. A movement that has a few tens of thousands of individuals at best, and loses large numbers of these in each engagement, has little sustaining ability. The most crucial part of the equation is a world in which the police forces can work effectively -- meaning no safe-harbors. The current approach seems to be fumbling toward this ideal.
-- Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
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Post #23,794
1/10/02 3:56:09 PM
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Hmmm you do have a point..
IF we uniformly 'trusted' the reduction of all personalities to computer-convenient Numbers; IF even that highly questionable model had some merit AND the error-rate was vanishingly small - in applying this wondrous labelling.. etc.
Of course then: it would be as you say. Out there at 3 SDs would be a small pool of really Weird individuals - the ones (measurably?) 'free of most neuroses, fantasies and Certainties' of the age. The rest of us would start out with Three Strikes and then some.
But then: imagine that Billy n'Bally get the CONTRACT. See what I mean? And even if this petabyte db were uncharacteristically free of the usual screw-ups, false duplicates, etc. And even if all judges had to take remedial courses to come up to speed re all the possibilities that the CRT might be disgorging garbage:
Nahhh. Such as we are, we could never protect the confidentiality of an All-in-One db. But the illusion that it did contain Revealed Truth would be powerful and it Would be hacked. I believe it would feed current idiocy, maybe irreversibly: that Numbers can indeed characterize us All - like IQs, anyone?
(Ever know someone with a planetary-size IQ, who was a third-rate jerkoff? Or vice versa - IQ of a tick yet brilliant on the weird human stuff?)
{sigh}
Our National Faith in Numbers is touching... er tetching?
Ashton I'm with Mikey (breakfast cereal kiddie, who doesn't like Anything in a cereal box).
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Post #23,834
1/10/02 10:01:07 PM
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In my most serious and ...
"authoritative" opinion, you have once again hit upon the crux of the biscuit... The same jagoffs that can be bought in the DMV/BMV can be bought in the National DB... GIGO. There is technology is definately there, the safeguards (wetware) is no where close. I think I must pass on this one as well.
Anyone who has had an erroneous credit "problem" knows all too well how crazy things can become quickly. I had the "fortune" of having some poor slob who had a very similar social security number hose my credit rating for a few months. It cost me over $1000 all told to "clear my name"...
Yep, gonna pass if I get a chance to vote on this one... Might even vote!
Just a few thoughts,
Screamer
"Noone knows what it's like to be the bad man, the sad man, behind blue eyes."
P. Townshend
"Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones
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Post #24,122
1/13/02 1:31:58 AM
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National Company ID first
Why the heck can't each company be forced to have a unique public ID?
There are too many fly-by-night slimeball companies around. (And some of them owe me a paycheck or two.)
________________ oop.ismad.com
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Post #23,770
1/10/02 1:09:40 PM
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Actually, if it wasn't so sad, it would be funny
I remember hearing from several hard-right pundits that DMV's weren't competent enough to handle voter registration when they get their driver's licenses.
Yet they have to be competent enough to handle a National ID. Okkkaaaayyyy.
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Post #24,069
1/12/02 5:13:42 PM
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Norm, this may depress you but...
... the fact that you're suffering from depression will come back to haunt you. (Just try to get disability insurance even now....)
And in the hands of an Ashhole, or a Scalia (the son...and maybe the father too), you could find you're suddenly uninsurable, which may make you unemployable, or perhaps you may not be allowed to drive a car, because depressive types might be prone to road-rage....
Etc.
However, if you don't/can't drive, you won't need to go to the DMV for anything, so you won't have to get yer National ID card.... There's a silver lining to everything!
jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
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Post #24,281
1/14/02 12:06:38 PM
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I know it already
that is most likely the reason why I cannot find anything now. Due to my depression, the companies somehow found out. According to the ADA they can't discriminate against a mental illness, but they do anyway. I don't have a history of being violent anyway, no criminal record either. But it doesn't seem to matter, I get prejudged anyway.
"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
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Post #24,298
1/14/02 1:27:42 PM
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Here's an idea...LIE!
Don't tell 'em about it. Then when they don't give you a job, if they let it slip somehow that you're uninsureable, sue the livin' bejeezus outta them...they can't find out your insureability status unless they did something they shouldn't have.
jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
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Post #24,306
1/14/02 1:42:53 PM
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But that would be unethical
to lie on an employment form, they can turn it around and bite you for not filling it out after they somehow find out I had it and didn't list it on the application. Cause for termination, lied on the job application.
But anyway, even if I do not tell them, they will figure it out somehow. Background checks, talking to ex-coworkers for references, checking my credit history and seeing that I have bills with hospitals over mental health issues, etc. I have so many checks in my credit history, by companies that I do not even know. I think the firms hire other companies to do the checks when I apply for a job.
"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
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