Reality check.

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Post #234,015 by mmoffitt 11/14/05 11:22:05 AM Reply	Reality check. After all, the big bad military is SNEAKY and UNDERHANDED and dupe every single member into joining up. You think the military doesn't intentionally mislead adolescents into signing up? Time to change crack brands, beep. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #234,019 by bepatient 11/14/05 11:26:06 AM Reply	Let the attacks continue can't argue the point, attack the guy who made it. Par for your course. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #234,023 by mmoffitt 11/14/05 11:34:06 AM Reply	So, you're saying the military doesn't mislead? I remember being recruited. I have friends who served and were substantially misled from where they'd be stationed to how much dough they'd get for college. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #234,027 by bepatient 11/14/05 11:40:28 AM Reply	Not saying any such thing. You are. It has nothing to do with my point. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #234,029 by mmoffitt 11/14/05 11:43:51 AM Reply	Bad form. I replied to (and quoted) the statement you made I took issue with. HTH. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #234,030 by bepatient 11/14/05 11:45:32 AM Reply	And assume that any answer would somehow change the fundamental argument, which it does not. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #234,032 by mmoffitt 11/14/05 11:48:51 AM Reply	Heh. So, you make (presumeably in support of your position) outrageous Claim A. I call you on it and you concede (I think) that Claim A is clearly false. And somehow I'm not addressing the argument but launching a personal attack? Okay, I did tell you to put the crack pipe down again - shorthand for "C'mon beep. That statement is ridiculous on its face." bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #234,048 by bepatient 11/14/05 1:17:15 PM Reply	Wasn't a claim it was a characterization of arguments (sarcasm)that then as well as now hoave little bearing on the point. And since you took 2 swings that were very loosely related to the point...I answered one and followed with that. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]

Bill O'Reilly supports terrorists - (andread) - (185) - Nov. 11, 2005, 02:16:27 PM EST

Only SF? - (bepatient) - (184) - Nov. 11, 2005, 03:55:47 PM EST

All or nothing? - (hnick) - (182) - Nov. 11, 2005, 05:26:35 PM EST

Don't be a goof - (bepatient) - (181) - Nov. 11, 2005, 05:32:48 PM EST

How not? - (hnick) - (180) - Nov. 11, 2005, 06:52:57 PM EST

Re: How not? - (bepatient) - (179) - Nov. 11, 2005, 07:06:46 PM EST

What's the death rate of BET employees? - (broomberg) - (93) - Nov. 11, 2005, 07:08:32 PM EST

Black helicopters on way from Ft. Dix to Barry's house. -NT - (a6l6e6x) - Nov. 11, 2005, 08:29:26 PM EST

So no police, fire and first responders either? -NT - (bepatient) - (20) - Nov. 11, 2005, 09:57:31 PM EST

Unlikely - (broomberg) - (19) - Nov. 12, 2005, 08:48:32 AM EST

Oh dear - (bepatient) - (18) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:50:42 AM EST

There you go again - (broomberg) - (17) - Nov. 12, 2005, 05:04:05 PM EST

I have in several posts - (bepatient) - (16) - Nov. 12, 2005, 07:55:30 PM EST

Fine - (broomberg) - (12) - Nov. 12, 2005, 07:59:02 PM EST

Until then - (bepatient) - (11) - Nov. 12, 2005, 08:01:11 PM EST

In HS, they aren't 'people'; they are CHILDREN. -NT - (Ashton) - (10) - Nov. 13, 2005, 12:53:30 AM EST

Actually, no - (broomberg) - (9) - Nov. 13, 2005, 01:09:08 AM EST

Nice ad-hom - (bepatient) - (8) - Nov. 13, 2005, 10:32:27 AM EST

While they can't sign until adults - (broomberg) - (7) - Nov. 13, 2005, 10:50:36 AM EST

What I've said - (bepatient) - (6) - Nov. 13, 2005, 11:56:48 AM EST

McDonald's doesn't train kids to kill or be killed - (imqwerky) - (5) - Nov. 13, 2005, 09:32:59 PM EST

just blow the wrong gender and instant discharge - (boxley) - (2) - Nov. 13, 2005, 09:10:08 PM EST

pun intended? -NT - (SpiceWare) - (1) - Nov. 13, 2005, 09:45:18 PM EST

nope, just unintended brilliance! :-) -NT - (boxley) - Nov. 13, 2005, 09:46:07 PM EST

Thank you for proving my point - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2005, 08:18:23 AM EST

Sorta depends on who you ask... - (jb4) - Nov. 14, 2005, 01:36:21 PM EST

Re: I have in several posts - (jb4) - (2) - Nov. 14, 2005, 01:32:37 PM EST

Look. - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2005, 02:00:21 PM EST

Technically not illegal - (Simon_Jester) - Nov. 14, 2005, 03:29:18 PM EST

Put it another way... - (pwhysall) - (67) - Nov. 12, 2005, 12:35:05 AM EST

Then no police and no correctional officers - (bepatient) - (66) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:51:52 AM EST

Sounds fair enough to me. -NT - (pwhysall) - (65) - Nov. 12, 2005, 11:02:42 AM EST

So then you feel comfortable - (bepatient) - (64) - Nov. 12, 2005, 11:30:45 AM EST

Yes, basically. - (pwhysall) - (49) - Nov. 12, 2005, 01:21:09 PM EST

Difference of opinion, then. - (bepatient) - (48) - Nov. 12, 2005, 02:23:19 PM EST

No-one's options are being limited by my point of view. - (pwhysall) - (1) - Nov. 12, 2005, 03:18:00 PM EST

The brush is a bit broad - (hnick) - Nov. 12, 2005, 04:44:30 PM EST

Ya know, Bill... - (jb4) - (45) - Nov. 14, 2005, 01:46:15 PM EST

Re: Ya know, Bill... - (bepatient) - (44) - Nov. 14, 2005, 02:04:53 PM EST

There is another POV on this. - (mmoffitt) - (42) - Nov. 14, 2005, 02:09:42 PM EST

You're qualifying again - (bepatient) - (38) - Nov. 14, 2005, 02:36:55 PM EST

Private != State != Federal. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (20) - Nov. 14, 2005, 02:40:45 PM EST

And you continue - (bepatient) - (19) - Nov. 14, 2005, 02:45:21 PM EST

It's about States autonomy from this pov. - (mmoffitt) - (18) - Nov. 14, 2005, 02:50:03 PM EST

No it isn't. - (bepatient) - (17) - Nov. 14, 2005, 03:29:13 PM EST

Again, this time with feeling. - (mmoffitt) - (15) - Nov. 14, 2005, 04:06:01 PM EST

You are mixing things up - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2005, 04:16:15 PM EST

If the Federal Government really wants to, they can - (ben_tilly) - (13) - Nov. 14, 2005, 05:10:15 PM EST

They can raise armies as needed, but pussy communists - (boxley) - (6) - Nov. 14, 2005, 06:30:59 PM EST

why don't you tell us what you really feel box. - (bepatient) - (5) - Nov. 14, 2005, 07:26:52 PM EST

pussy communists, where the army cant be used in the US - (boxley) - (4) - Nov. 14, 2005, 08:39:22 PM EST

:-) -NT - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2005, 08:48:19 PM EST

What are you on about? - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Nov. 15, 2005, 09:16:48 AM EST

rent a movie called tank -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Nov. 15, 2005, 09:29:29 AM EST

That '84 Maverick flick? ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - Nov. 15, 2005, 09:33:16 AM EST

"by any means necessary" is implied, then? - (mmoffitt) - (5) - Nov. 23, 2005, 11:24:18 AM EST

Not quite ANY means.. - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Nov. 23, 2005, 10:25:51 PM EST

Has that ever been challenged? Did any State try to opt out? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (3) - Nov. 28, 2005, 12:09:40 PM EST

not since 1865 -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Nov. 28, 2005, 01:08:26 PM EST

Thanks. I meant USSC cases. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - Nov. 28, 2005, 01:55:45 PM EST

Yes, and I do not know - (ben_tilly) - Nov. 28, 2005, 05:09:24 PM EST

Red Herring alert number 2581 (or so) - (jb4) - Nov. 16, 2005, 01:54:01 PM EST

But, must everybody be allowed to recruit if the Fed is? -NT - (imric) - (16) - Nov. 14, 2005, 02:45:28 PM EST

Any specific exclusion should be frowned upon - (bepatient) - (15) - Nov. 14, 2005, 02:47:23 PM EST

How about groups that promote violence and killing? - (imric) - (6) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:17:46 PM EST

or democrats depending on your point of view -NT - (boxley) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:27:27 PM EST

Was wondering where that was headed - (bepatient) - (4) - Nov. 15, 2005, 12:23:00 AM EST

Political parties are not businesses either. - (imric) - (3) - Nov. 15, 2005, 09:23:15 AM EST

Are they paying now? - (bepatient) - (2) - Nov. 15, 2005, 10:56:38 AM EST

Yes you did. $300.00 -NT - (imric) - (1) - Nov. 15, 2005, 12:00:26 PM EST

That was my money - (bepatient) - Nov. 15, 2005, 12:23:42 PM EST

How about Al Qaida? CPUSA? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (7) - Nov. 15, 2005, 09:19:38 AM EST

What, trying to find somebody I don't like? - (bepatient) - (6) - Nov. 15, 2005, 10:58:18 AM EST

Nope. Just testing your metal. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - Nov. 15, 2005, 11:46:37 AM EST

Then here's one for you. - (a6l6e6x) - (4) - Nov. 15, 2005, 10:11:46 PM EST

You're right - (bepatient) - (3) - Nov. 15, 2005, 10:13:39 PM EST

NCLB Sec 9525 covers the Boy Scouts. - (Another Scott) - (2) - Nov. 15, 2005, 10:22:43 PM EST

Section HOW MANY?!? - (jb4) - (1) - Nov. 16, 2005, 01:40:15 PM EST

It's not that bad. - (Another Scott) - Nov. 16, 2005, 01:57:51 PM EST

they take the federal dole, thats why -NT - (boxley) - (2) - Nov. 14, 2005, 03:24:32 PM EST

Even that doesn't feature in my reasoning. - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2005, 03:31:19 PM EST

Not much, they aren't. -NT - (mmoffitt) - Nov. 14, 2005, 04:07:38 PM EST

Yes I am... - (jb4) - Nov. 16, 2005, 01:43:33 PM EST

Um, that wouldn't be freedom. That'd be indoctrination. - (mmoffitt) - (13) - Nov. 14, 2005, 11:20:25 AM EST

Next - (bepatient) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2005, 11:24:09 AM EST

Um, that wouldn't be me. That'd be DHS. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - Nov. 14, 2005, 11:32:38 AM EST

like what you teach your kids :-) /me dux -NT - (boxley) - (10) - Nov. 14, 2005, 12:34:57 PM EST

I don't teach my kids anything anymore. They teach me. - (mmoffitt) - (9) - Nov. 14, 2005, 01:12:40 PM EST

tell me about it - (boxley) - (8) - Nov. 14, 2005, 01:32:27 PM EST

If that's true, - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Nov. 14, 2005, 01:37:34 PM EST

will be 17 in Jan, link below - (boxley) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2005, 01:46:38 PM EST

Thanks. I'll give 'em a gander ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - Nov. 14, 2005, 02:10:36 PM EST

is it pre-marital if they're not going to get married? -NT - (SpiceWare) - (2) - Nov. 14, 2005, 02:31:48 PM EST

Im afraid to ask :-) -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2005, 03:25:48 PM EST

Well, clarify that before I go show mine the pic. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - Nov. 14, 2005, 04:06:56 PM EST

He didn't give you the whole story - (broomberg) - Nov. 14, 2005, 07:52:43 PM EST

Just because he doesn't believe in it . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - Nov. 14, 2005, 07:57:20 PM EST

In the South? -NT - (imric) - Nov. 12, 2005, 09:40:28 AM EST

That's not gonna fly - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2007, 05:45:47 AM EDT

Indeed: SHOCK n'AWE competing with GM corner office - - (Ashton) - Nov. 13, 2005, 01:00:51 AM EST

Discrimination.. we have to give that up, too? - (Ashton) - (84) - Nov. 12, 2005, 02:59:41 AM EST

Ah, I see. - (bepatient) - (83) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:54:10 AM EST

Yeah, he *is* "SMARTER than THEM". They're KIDS. - (CRConrad) - (74) - Nov. 12, 2005, 06:01:17 PM EST

At 18, I might be smarter... - (bepatient) - (73) - Nov. 12, 2005, 07:59:16 PM EST

So you agree - (imqwerky) - (72) - Nov. 12, 2005, 09:42:12 PM EST

Not so fast dearest - (bepatient) - (71) - Nov. 12, 2005, 09:52:01 PM EST

Re: Not so fast dearest - (andread) - (65) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:02:39 PM EST

Tis a law I believe - (bepatient) - (64) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:04:19 PM EST

Discrimination is not created equal - (ben_tilly) - (63) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:32:26 PM EST

Then you have a poor understanding of what I think - (bepatient) - (60) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:40:49 PM EST

Re-read what you wrote - (ben_tilly) - (13) - Nov. 12, 2005, 11:21:06 PM EST

I am of the opinion - (bepatient) - (12) - Nov. 12, 2005, 11:50:47 PM EST

My understanding is... - (ben_tilly) - (11) - Nov. 13, 2005, 12:34:41 AM EST

Different situation altogether - (bepatient) - (10) - Nov. 13, 2005, 12:43:40 AM EST

There's something basic at stake here - (ben_tilly) - (9) - Nov. 13, 2005, 01:00:25 AM EST

And I'm telling you that I think its different - (bepatient) - (4) - Nov. 13, 2005, 10:35:12 AM EST

In short, I'm wasting my breath - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Nov. 13, 2005, 03:24:50 PM EST

Box gave you one - (bepatient) - (2) - Nov. 13, 2005, 06:42:27 PM EST

Yes, boxley did. But even if he didn't, you wouldn't have. -NT - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Nov. 13, 2005, 09:44:58 PM EST

For the stated reasons - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2005, 08:22:49 AM EST

lets try some case law shall we? - (boxley) - (3) - Nov. 13, 2005, 11:48:18 AM EST

Can you say where that case is from? - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Nov. 13, 2005, 03:47:26 PM EST

hmm, thought I linked it, here ya go - (boxley) - (1) - Nov. 13, 2005, 09:23:24 PM EST

That does look applicable, thanks -NT - (ben_tilly) - Nov. 13, 2005, 09:42:46 PM EST

Sophistry flying under perverse banner, Social Darwinism 101 - (Ashton) - (45) - Nov. 13, 2005, 12:52:04 AM EST

Sophistry ? - (bepatient) - (44) - Nov. 13, 2005, 10:43:10 AM EST

They can quit McDonalds - (broomberg) - (4) - Nov. 13, 2005, 10:52:04 AM EST

Because it makes no difference - (bepatient) - (3) - Nov. 13, 2005, 11:58:47 AM EST

no difference - (andread) - (2) - Nov. 13, 2005, 04:55:51 PM EST

More of a limit - (bepatient) - (1) - Nov. 13, 2005, 06:44:58 PM EST

I think some people - (Simon_Jester) - Nov. 13, 2005, 08:14:53 PM EST

Companies are not the same as the armed forces - (pwhysall) - Nov. 13, 2005, 11:26:49 AM EST

Other employers - (imric) - (37) - Nov. 13, 2005, 11:57:00 AM EST

See above. -NT - (bepatient) - (36) - Nov. 13, 2005, 11:59:22 AM EST

No. - (imric) - (35) - Nov. 13, 2005, 12:04:37 PM EST

You continue to hunt for things - (bepatient) - (34) - Nov. 13, 2005, 12:20:51 PM EST

No-one's taking any choices away, though. - (pwhysall) - (2) - Nov. 13, 2005, 12:44:21 PM EST

Without equal access - (bepatient) - (1) - Nov. 13, 2005, 06:50:37 PM EST

Yes, adults do know better than children. -NT - (pwhysall) - Nov. 14, 2005, 01:32:34 AM EST

Ok, how about this? - (hnick) - (30) - Nov. 13, 2005, 01:01:52 PM EST

But but but - (broomberg) - (3) - Nov. 13, 2005, 01:32:44 PM EST

Their problem. TS as it were... -NT - (hnick) - (2) - Nov. 13, 2005, 01:38:35 PM EST

I guess I needed the sign -NT - (broomberg) - (1) - Nov. 13, 2005, 02:07:05 PM EST

Me too -NT - (hnick) - Nov. 13, 2005, 02:41:25 PM EST

I'm cool with that. - (bepatient) - (25) - Nov. 13, 2005, 06:49:32 PM EST

It was impossible to tease that out though - (broomberg) - (4) - Nov. 13, 2005, 06:53:01 PM EST

I engaged - (bepatient) - (3) - Nov. 13, 2005, 06:57:56 PM EST

Sorry - (broomberg) - (2) - Nov. 13, 2005, 07:01:46 PM EST

No reason for that - (bepatient) - Nov. 13, 2005, 07:05:56 PM EST

dupe -NT - (bepatient) - Nov. 13, 2005, 07:06:29 PM EST

If there's any 'groupthink' here, Mr. Legal Theoretician - (Ashton) - (19) - Nov. 14, 2005, 05:34:33 AM EST

conclusions should be made on rationale not gut think - (boxley) - Nov. 14, 2005, 09:20:04 AM EST

Bullpucky - (bepatient) - (17) - Nov. 14, 2005, 09:44:40 AM EST

No-one's freedom to choose has been taken away. - (pwhysall) - (7) - Nov. 14, 2005, 09:46:11 AM EST

That is in there - (bepatient) - (5) - Nov. 14, 2005, 09:49:54 AM EST

It's harder to choose because it's not the same. - (pwhysall) - (4) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:10:17 AM EST

But the access to choose - (bepatient) - (3) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:14:56 AM EST

By that logic... - (pwhysall) - (2) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:21:24 AM EST

Chuckle - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:28:37 AM EST

as a matter of fact you might have a hard time keeping them - (boxley) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:28:41 AM EST

either equal access for all or no access for anyone - (boxley) - Nov. 14, 2005, 09:52:09 AM EST

Suppose this was rural Nevada rather than SF. - (Another Scott) - (4) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:21:52 AM EST

Its a legal occupation - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:30:51 AM EST

prostitution is a venerable profession - (boxley) - (2) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:31:12 AM EST

I misread that as... - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2005, 05:13:08 PM EST

intended this time :-} -NT - (boxley) - Nov. 14, 2005, 06:18:01 PM EST

OK Beep, you've convinced me - (Ashton) - (3) - Nov. 14, 2005, 06:44:26 PM EST

WDYHASM? -NT - (bepatient) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2005, 07:30:56 PM EST

(Because it's Broken?) -NT - (Ashton) - Nov. 14, 2005, 07:44:37 PM EST

Judging by infected computers . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - Nov. 14, 2005, 07:44:33 PM EST

ya might want to check into title 9 etc - (boxley) - (1) - Nov. 12, 2005, 11:18:38 PM EST

Ya might want to actually read my post - (ben_tilly) - Nov. 12, 2005, 11:25:14 PM EST

Now wait just a minute! - (imqwerky) - (4) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:10:54 PM EST

And there you go. - (bepatient) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:20:21 PM EST

Use the source, Q! - (Another Scott) - (1) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:35:56 PM EST

May the Source be with me! -NT - (imqwerky) - Nov. 12, 2005, 11:40:45 PM EST

A hitch is 8 years these days. - (Another Scott) - Nov. 13, 2005, 09:22:14 PM EST

Reality check. - (mmoffitt) - (7) - Nov. 14, 2005, 11:22:05 AM EST

Let the attacks continue - (bepatient) - (6) - Nov. 14, 2005, 11:26:06 AM EST

So, you're saying the military doesn't mislead? - (mmoffitt) - (5) - Nov. 14, 2005, 11:34:06 AM EST

Not saying any such thing. - (bepatient) - (4) - Nov. 14, 2005, 11:40:28 AM EST

Bad form. - (mmoffitt) - (3) - Nov. 14, 2005, 11:43:51 AM EST

And assume - (bepatient) - (2) - Nov. 14, 2005, 11:45:32 AM EST

Heh. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2005, 11:48:51 AM EST

Wasn't a claim - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2005, 01:17:15 PM EST

The Supreme Court to weigh in on school recruiting. (new thread) - (Another Scott) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:32:07 PM EST

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