Post #234,008
11/14/05 10:35:55 AM
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The Theory & Practice of Bushevism
[link|http://www.antiwar.com/blog/index.php?id=P2507|http://www.antiwar.c...ndex.php?id=P2507] Gee, no wonder the Iraqi Communist Party is so enthusiastic about the American occupation -- and was even appointed by former viceroy Paul Bremer to the Governing Council. As I wrote two years ago:
"The Communists, like the Americans, believe that the way to transform society and achieve the transition to true democracy is by establishing an 'interim' dictatorship: in the case of the former, it's the "dictatorship of the proletariat," while the Americans call their dictatorship the 'Iraqi Interim Authority.' But that's just semantics. Both want to forcibly modernize and secularize a deeply religious, consciously conservative society, and seek to 'liberate' women: both commies and neocons see themselves as "progressive," on the right side of history, and both have force at the core of their methods.
"There is really nothing all that odd about the Commie-neocon axis of 'liberation': it represents the reunion of the Bolsheviks with their long-lost Menshevik brothers."
The conservative philosopher Claes Ryn calls the neocons who are running America into the ground "neo-Jacobins," and surely their methods -- including torture -- recall the reign of Robespierre in "revolutionary" France. As Professor Ryn puts it:
"But 9/11 changed everything, the neo-Jacobins cry. Well, not quite everything. The human condition has not changed. Terrible events do not cancel the need for those personal qualities and social and political structures without which the will to power becomes arbitrary and tyrannical. Unfortunately, 9/11 gave the imperialistic personality another pretext for throwing off restraint." Bush and Brehznev, the crapocracy. thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,021
11/14/05 11:31:35 AM
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Feh. Motivation is *entirely* different.
And makes communists morally superior. The Communist - even the ones in name only, I'm talking true believer Bolsheviks here, not most of their thug leaders - is motivated by a genuine conviction that by doing what he does, everyone will be better off. The neocon is motivated purely and wholeheartedly by self aggrandizement. Hell, look around, there are people on this board who bemoan Communists as being naive - "their system can't work because it denies human nature". Human nature, then, for those making that argument is consistent with Neoconderthalism. Those making that argument (that Communism is doomed to fail because it runs counter to human nature) differ from neocons by degree only. Most Muricans have bought the neocon view of life - that is the real tragedy.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,043
11/14/05 12:48:55 PM
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personally I believe Marlowe could have wrote this
Arise, ye slaves who know starvation!
Shake off the curse that binds the earth!
Our reason boils with indignation,
And makes us die to gain new birth.
We'll tear down our planet's false foundation,
Then build a better world anew,
While he who lived in humble station
Will stand erect, as is his due.
those are his sentiments expressed here and elsewhere. You know as well as I do that the bolshevik leadership was a crooked as anyone else except for a few true believers and useless idiots. The Busheviks are no different, they have Marlowe and Pat Robertson howling from the rooftops. The aim is domination thru manipulation and naked force when nescessary.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,050
11/14/05 1:21:23 PM
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I know you saw the caveat.
What I object to is the widely held myth, perpetuated ad nauseum by our vaunted corporatocracy, that the only virture in life is to amass as much private wealth as you are capable. Worse, that this greed, this egotism, this drive to have more is widely accepted as human nature. As if there is no gregarious, co-operative sentiment within your typical homo sap. It's nonsense, of course. But it does help perpetuate the market and it does keep the flow of more and more wealth headed into fewer and fewer hands. If that's what it is to be human, then there sure as hell isn't much worth being human for.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,051
11/14/05 1:29:13 PM
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like a local bidnessman said
you could redistribute all of america's wealth equally to all citizens, in a few days the same people would end up with all the money. Nature is tooth, claw, nurturing and mentoring. Human nature also pretends that there is a devine part as well. Corporacracy is naked greed that should have checks and balances, thats where traditional western societies had a mandated religious tax and all charity disbursments were made thru the religious odies. Now when we designed our country we didnt want a religious faction ruler uber alles. We didnt however replace it with a dedicated flow of charity.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,056
11/14/05 1:36:03 PM
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I've heard that Straw Man before.
"Redistribute the wealth more equitably and the same people will end up with more than anyone else." The first myth (the prime directive myth of capitalism?) would likely yield those results. We're too fscked at this point. Too many McDonald's, too much MTV, too many cars, too many ads, too much incessant bizness propaganda, too much fear, too much xenophobia, too little thought ..., there's just no savin' it. But that doesn't mean it's human nature.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,105
11/14/05 4:38:19 PM
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Pshaw
"you could redistribute all of america's wealth equally to all citizens, in a few days the same people would end up with all the money." What, you think Junior Bush rose to wealth and power on raw ability? Do you imagine little Billy Gates could retrieve his billions once people saw him coming and knew the consequences of collaborating with him? In the latter instance, Gates was cunning and ruthless and, at a couple of crucial early turns, lucky, and while he could likely prosper even if he had to start over from nothing, he has no personal qualities or abilities that destined him to vast wealth. As to Bush, I use him as shorthand for that class of privilege born into wealth who have rationalized that their fortunes are tributes to talent. Or do you believe that had Dubya been snatched by gypsies as a tot and raised by the Shlobotniks (George Shlobotnik Sr., a milkman; Mabel Shlobotnik, a housewife) in Milwaukee he'd ever have owned a baseball team or fronted for a plutocratic cabal?
cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
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Post #234,131
11/14/05 6:47:56 PM
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dubya couldnt figure out what hand to wipe with
but the old man and its cabal of Slickernaughts would do very well, and billg might start by snatching purses or pursing snatches but would regain because like trump he understands the art of the deal. Figure out who needs to buy something. Find said item and by hook or crook get it cheaper than you plan to sell. Since the average american cant figure out how to stockpile a 3 day supply of drinking water I assume that a few of the players might change, the majority wont.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,145
11/14/05 7:44:49 PM
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Old Man Dubya
Also born to wealth and privilege. Far from the worst president we ever had—I wasn't crazy about him, but unlike the incumbent he didn't cause me to bolt awake each morning wishing for his aortal artery to unravel violently—but thee and me would likely never have heard of him but for the awful resonance of inherited wealth.
cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
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Post #234,156
11/14/05 8:42:34 PM
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when you sit as top dog in the CIA
there are boat loads of buried treasure to be had for the taking, as well as those whitebread prod bastards on the east coats who think an automobile sounds like a crow. Between Prescott and Old Joe they took what they wanted.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,180
11/14/05 10:50:33 PM
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and Poppa Bush was top dog in the CIA...
on the basis of raw merit rather than privilege? I think not.
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
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Post #234,182
11/14/05 10:53:11 PM
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Its called "who is passing out the dumplings"
you share spoils with friends and peers. From Wild Bill Donovan to Dulles to whoever the hell is in there now, all thin lipped white boy prods from the north east.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,118
11/14/05 5:32:28 PM
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Not that different...
Many neocons really did believe that we would bring democracy to Iraq, modernize its economy, and provide a shining beacon of light to the rest of the Arab world.
Some of the true believers still do believe that.
Projecting the cynicism of Bush & Co to the rank and file neocons is no more accurate than projecting the cynicism of Stalin and his close associates to the rank and file communists.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #234,209
11/15/05 9:12:36 AM
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You think so?
And they say communists are naive. Sheesh.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,225
11/15/05 10:11:35 AM
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Thanks for the vague, content-free insult
Perhaps you can explain why I'm supposed to be so naive?
Here is part of why I believe what I said.
If you read things like [link|http://www.newamericancentury.org/|http://www.newamericancentury.org/] or [link|http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/published/pentagonsnewmap.htm|http://www.thomaspmb...ntagonsnewmap.htm] you'll find the positions outlined of people who at least claim to believe that. I see no reason to doubt that many of them do. Certainly I've known people who bought the line hook, line and sinker. (I work with one.) And I'd find it hard to believe that the echo chamber of right-wing sites, talk radio, Fox News, etc would work as well as it does if there weren't a lot of people involved who believe what they are saying.
Again, I'm not saying that Bush and those close to him are under any delusions. But the Marlowe's of the world...?
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #234,246
11/15/05 11:44:36 AM
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You misread me.
Although re-reading my own post I can see why you did. I meant that anyone who believed "we would bring democracy to Iraq, modernize its economy, and provide a shining beacon of light to the rest of the Arab world" was naive, not you.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,247
11/15/05 11:46:32 AM
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Ah. Agreed. And sorry for jumping down your throat.
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #234,249
11/15/05 11:50:30 AM
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Np.
I know you've probably still got a short fuse w/me after my recent episode of stress induced mean-spiritedness, and was, shall we say, somewhat less than congenial? ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,389
11/15/05 11:10:26 PM
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Yet the PNAC masthead lists putatively educated folks -
No dropout earned That lofty achievement / 'company'
This level of naivete surely constitutes a Proof of some kind - that they have learned nothing of the Region, its history and the dominant cultural er <memes> - upon whom they wished to besow their largesse; indeed, it makes the sum of them as callow as an off-the-farm entering freshman at Kansas University and Carwash.
So, were their 'beliefs' as sincere as I think I hear you meaning - how to account for all the classes whose content they must have missed, so thoroughly? Unless it is possible to achieve advance degrees.. even Teach material for advanced degrees! ... from a ... dreamstate.
Confused.
ie and my point, I think:
Sincerity
Once you can fake that, You've Got It Made
Got a better explanation..?
If they Believed their inane dream - they are Stupid.
If they pretended - they are War Criminals and (___ fill in adjectives.)
Ya Can't have it Both Ways, now Can ya?
Faking sincerity: wins every Murican vote (in my experience, anyway.)
Mencken, Barnum, de Tocqueville appear to corroborate my experience, so this is not New.
My vote is in: I despise these Chicken Hawk motherfuckers for,
They Did Know That Which They Did / LIED-Massively to get to do it.
Have not the guts to admit a Single Failure of their intellect, courage, intent.
... and continue to give each other Medals.
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Post #234,477
11/16/05 1:02:22 PM
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do you think Marlowe is uneducated?
These dimbulbs like Perle Wolfowitz, Libby absolutely beleive in what they say/do. Cheney, Rummy eta all ruthlessly and cynically use them to further their own evil plans. Its a symbiotic relationship of neocon pilot fish directing the sharks.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,531
11/16/05 4:00:31 PM
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No...marlowe is worse.
Libby, Perle, etc. benefit....even indirectly from Cheney and Rumsfield. (Libby was VP Chief of Staff and Perle had a position at the Pentagon.)
Marlowe gets NONE of this.
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