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New That doesn't contradict me
Having life and will does not make something self aware, in the same way that a lizard having life and will does not make it self aware. Gods are generally self aware and have purportedly communicated in a language. The article about animism makes no mention of this and doesn't even mention a god, though it does mention worship.

So, there exists a type of belief that has spirits but no god.

But as I said, I don't think that 13% have a consistent belief system. It's likely that more people believe in the christian god than the christian satan. It's a disconnected pile of whatever uncriticized ideas enter their brain.
Matthew Greet


Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
New What makes you think lizards are not self aware?
Scientific studies have shown very little difference between humans and other animals. The awareness may not be verbal, but it's definitely there. Parrots can be verbal, so several have been taught to talk, to devise sentences with meaning, ask questions and understand answers. That's self awareness. Lizards are more primitive than parrots, but but are not different in any absolute way.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New I seem to recall the dot test
Paint a dot on the subject.
Put them in front of a mirror.
Observe if the see the dot and then reach to themselves, or to the mirror image.
Dolphins and people (age 11 months or so) reach to themselves, no others.
New I see this as proving . . .
. . an understanding of mirrors, nothing more.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Chimpanzees also figure it out quickly
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
     in the WTF category Brit beleive in ghosts but not gods - (boxley) - (33)
         Why? - (jbrabeck) - (5)
             those that dont beleive in gods often claim logic an science - (boxley) - (4)
                 I can see your logic - (jbrabeck) - (3)
                     Ignoring, of course, all non-YHVH based religions... -NT - (imric)
                     eh? the book is full of haints witches demons angels giants - (boxley) - (1)
                         Re: eh? the book is full of haints witches demons angels gia - (jb4)
         Not so. - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
             not required but inffered all matter is energy -NT - (boxley)
         Animism - (warmachine) - (9)
             just another word for god - (boxley) - (8)
                 A force with no self awareness, unlike any god... - (warmachine) - (7)
                     better take either a religious or anthropology class - (boxley) - (5)
                         That doesn't contradict me - (warmachine) - (4)
                             What makes you think lizards are not self aware? - (Andrew Grygus) - (3)
                                 I seem to recall the dot test - (broomberg) - (2)
                                     I see this as proving . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                                     Chimpanzees also figure it out quickly -NT - (ben_tilly)
                     Agreement - (Ashton)
         For specific definitions of god - (JayMehaffey)
         What? You think that Hindus don't exist? - (ben_tilly) - (13)
             Well said. - (imric)
             prove hindu's exist - (boxley) - (11)
                 Look at the survey question - (ben_tilly)
                 What's all this "G_d" business? - (pwhysall) - (8)
                     It's a common sign of respect or reverence. - (Another Scott) - (7)
                         You'll be referring to me as P_t_r, then, I take it? - (pwhysall) - (6)
                             Still... - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                 But the only "holy" name is the Hebrew one, innit? - (pwhysall)
                                 Interesting comment in the Wikipedia discussion: - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                     Well, he'd better convert to Christianity right away . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                         I'm just glad I'm an atheist... - (pwhysall)
                             if you note this is the only forum that I usually do it -NT - (boxley)
                 Dupe -NT - (pwhysall)

"There are two major products that come from Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." -- Jeremy S. Anderson
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