A force with no self awareness, unlike any god...

Post #231,987 by warmachine 11/1/05 7:49:00 PM Reply	A force with no self awareness, unlike any god... leaving only people (and possibly spirits) with self awareness. If an animist belief does have self aware spirits, nobody wants to worship them. Whereas polytheism has self aware spirits that people want to worship. Think of the stranger kind of tree-hugging hippies (and commit the sin of stereotyping). Mother nature is a force with only an instinctive purpose, like a lizard only has instinctive purpose. You could say 13% of the British believe in a primitive religion. I suspect it's just uncriticised superstition. Horror books and films are more popular than religious ones. Horror excites people but god simply doesn't cut it anymore. Matthew Greet Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #231,990 by boxley 11/1/05 8:00:33 PM Reply	better take either a religious or anthropology class [link\|http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/a/animism.htm\|http://www.themystic...les/a/animism.htm] He believed early man treated all animate objects as having a life and will of their own, but they never distinguished the soul as separate from the body, and could enter or leave the body. animism doesnt so much worship as recognise life forms. Even noted animists such as the Cheyenne and the Koreans believe in an overbeing(s). thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #231,999 by warmachine 11/1/05 9:09:10 PM Reply	That doesn't contradict me Having life and will does not make something self aware, in the same way that a lizard having life and will does not make it self aware. Gods are generally self aware and have purportedly communicated in a language. The article about animism makes no mention of this and doesn't even mention a god, though it does mention worship. So, there exists a type of belief that has spirits but no god. But as I said, I don't think that 13% have a consistent belief system. It's likely that more people believe in the christian god than the christian satan. It's a disconnected pile of whatever uncriticized ideas enter their brain. Matthew Greet Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #232,020 by Andrew Grygus 11/1/05 10:30:28 PM Reply	What makes you think lizards are not self aware? Scientific studies have shown very little difference between humans and other animals. The awareness may not be verbal, but it's definitely there. Parrots can be verbal, so several have been taught to talk, to devise sentences with meaning, ask questions and understand answers. That's self awareness. Lizards are more primitive than parrots, but but are not different in any absolute way. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #232,026 by broomberg 11/1/05 10:43:06 PM Reply	I seem to recall the dot test Paint a dot on the subject. Put them in front of a mirror. Observe if the see the dot and then reach to themselves, or to the mirror image. Dolphins and people (age 11 months or so) reach to themselves, no others.
Post #232,027 by Andrew Grygus 11/1/05 10:56:39 PM Reply	I see this as proving . . . . . an understanding of mirrors, nothing more. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #232,034 by ben_tilly 11/1/05 11:19:34 PM Reply	Chimpanzees also figure it out quickly I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #232,201 by Ashton 11/2/05 8:00:49 PM 11/2/05 8:11:55 PM Reply	Agreement (after reading with comprehension; a non-negative is almost as wasteful as a mind. The subject of that predicate was the previous post.) In support of that assertion, then - A force with no self awareness, unlike any god... leaving only people (and possibly spirits) with self awareness. A common thread amongst the variant -isms goes ~~ like this: [The Absolute] (That "to which no attributes may be assigned." Period.) The [Absolute] cannot 'know itself'. But means to ??? Yes, one has to THINK about that predicament, for quite some time. In order to "do" so, Other must be created, and by this er Singularity. And a milieu / maya / illusion (whatever) which is most often labelled, The World of Duality: happens. Within-which has been spawned all those metaphors; assembled-from-which was the Christian version: with the oft-used snake and the limning of the 'knowledge' thing, as appears closely-related to the Being thing, but not simply-enough for a few slogans to cover it. The Good/Evil, Yes/No Right/Wrong ... Duality Thing? R'us. And, I say - how appropriate for Our Time\ufffd (and re the major preoccupations of many hereabouts) that Duality is an exact synonym for digital; and the worst form of digital surely must be: digital-think. Especially when operated upon ~most everything there is? seems to be? endlessly spinning opposites along the Way. Naaah: the primrose path. Cosmic Humour? Shirley.. And therein lies the reason why the Fundies (of any stripe) shall never Grok-to-fullness -- just create incessant warz. Digital yes/no think keeps a one locked into the world of appearances. Pity. There: the history of contemplation AND an expectation of its means of denouement. :-\ufffd Edit - for opposites. Edited by Ashton Nov. 2, 2005, 08:11:55 PM EST Expand All History

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