Post #231,778
10/31/05 8:35:31 PM
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Insurgents continue to get better at bomb making
[link|http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/IraqCoverage/story?id=1267763|ABC] The U.S. military has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on armored vehicles in Iraq, but insurgents are adapting their tactics and using more sophisticated and deadlier devices. The documents show how these particular shaped charges \ufffd\\ which were pioneered by the Lebanese Hezbollah militant group \ufffd\\ are constructed from a six-to-nine-inch steel pipe filled with explosives. One end of the pipe is sealed, and a curved copper or steel plate is fitted to the other end, forming a weapon that amounts to a giant bullet. Very ugly, these things where developed to hit targets inside armored cars. The copper plate on the end makes them a lot more dangerous then simple shaped charges. Normal shaped charges can punch through a lot of armor, but take out less then a 1 inch diameter hole. The copper on these things tears through somewhat less armor but takes out a huge gash in the armor and splashes around inside the vehicle. Something like this would go right through a Hummer or Striker and probably could take out a Bradly. Jay
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Post #231,781
10/31/05 8:57:19 PM
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good thing they havnt figured out magnesium oxide
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #231,817
10/31/05 11:07:42 PM
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They don't need to "make" bombs
All they need to do is adapt existing munitions.
The sheer amount of munitions bunkers that went unguarded during the advance on Baghad makes it only neccesary for them to transport a few (thousands?) of the tons of unaccounted-for and abandoned explosives (and, presumably, appropriated, *we* certainly don't have them) to a spot and set them off. Gives a battlefield-level of destruction, in a city. A hummer isn't any protection against that kind of power, even with armor.
If we bring in tanks for civilian control, I think I might need to call a Godwin on our policy.
-----------------------------------------
George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty.
--Donald Dean Richards Jr.
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Post #231,887
11/1/05 11:45:53 AM
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Im surprised they havnt looked at the brit Derry model
4 troops in a stripped out jeep using heavy body armour instead. facing all 4 directions.To cover against rifle fire. They would be able to unass an area more quickly than an armoured hummer.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #231,906
11/1/05 12:35:57 PM
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NIH syndrome?
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #231,919
11/1/05 1:25:55 PM
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no, the Israelis have more current experience in urban war
they tend to use a heavy armour philosophy and we crosstrain a lot with them.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #231,935
11/1/05 2:37:15 PM
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Don't they have a virtually unkillable tank?
I seem to remember something about their tank (the Merkerva?) being the most heavily armored and surviveable tank in the world...
When somebody asks you to trade your freedom for security, it isn't your security they're talking about.
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Post #231,938
11/1/05 2:55:27 PM
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not anymore, the PALs have designed around that
armor, regardless of strength is projectile prone. A specific shaped charge can go thru anything with enough velocity. [link|http://info.jpost.com/C002/Supplements/CasualtiesOfWar/2002_03_14.html|http://info.jpost.co...r/2002_03_14.html] The attack occurred less than 100 meters from the spot where three soldiers were killed and a fourth wounded when an 80-kilogram mine exploded underneath their Merkava Mk III last month. All the soldiers belong to the Sufa armored battalion, which has served in the area for a number of months.
At 6:30 a.m., an army tracker was walking in front of two tanks, with a unit of Givati Brigade soldiers on foot in the rear, to secure the road leading from nearby Netzarim, when the mine exploded underneath one of the tanks. Officials think the terrorists hid behind a mosque near the roadside and detonated the mine by remote control.
The force off the blast blew off the tank's turret, throwing the tank commander into the air and wounding the tracker.
The explosion, which set the tank on fire, killed one of the tank crew instantly; the two other crew members were burned to death. thanks, Bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #232,138
11/2/05 1:32:56 PM
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ah, but their per-kill numbers are down!
(emphasis added): Pace said U.S. forces are still finding an enormous amount of explosives in Iraq. The Pentagon and its commanders, he said, are working to find the best technologies and tactics to protect the troops, including better armor and improved battlefield operations.
He said that while the number of IED attacks has risen, the number of casualties per effective IED attack is going down. As of Tuesday, the U.S. military death toll for October was at least 93, bringing the total number of military deaths to at least 2,026 since the war in Iraq began. [link|http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=nation_world&id=3594793|source] Or as [link|http://billmon.org/archives/002327.html|billmon] says: Of course last month's casualty count was the highest since January -- making October the 4th worst month for U.S. combat deaths since the war began. And this year's butcher's bill (ours) is running about 9% ahead of last year's -- although God willing that will change this month, when the first anniversary of Shrub's post-election assault on Fallujah rolls around. And of course there's not the slightest sign whatsoever that these deaths have weakened the insurgency or brought the war within a measurable distance of its end. But goddammit, it's taking the terrorists more IEDs than ever before to blow up a given number of American soldiers. And that's progress.
How come we don't read more positive stories like that in the mainstream media? cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
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Post #232,163
11/2/05 3:16:15 PM
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In other words...
The insurgents are recruiting lots of new people and shoving them at US troops faster. Because they aren't as well trained, they aren't as effective. But the numbers are taking their toll - we have more US casualties.
Why does this not strike me as good news?
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #232,185
11/2/05 5:53:56 PM
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Umm, reread for iron--
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Post #232,192
11/2/05 6:19:39 PM
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Sorry, did I need the sign?
I suspect that the Iraqi resistance is getting better kill numbers from their IEDs than we are with our bullets (250,000 shots:1 expired bad'un; see above).
cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
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Post #232,194
11/2/05 6:54:09 PM
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Probably not a good ratio
On the one paw, it neglects dropped bombs, artillery, and small arms. On the other paw, they use .50 in planes (including copters), tanks, and other carriers. Which spray down desert, buildings, rivers, whatever looks like it might be hostile. Or not as friendly as Detroit, say. A lot of the old ammo probably was quickly field tested, failed, losing a barrel, and pitched in the hopes that the bad guys would use it. Some of it might be dumped out of hand because they've lost too many barrels/receivers to verdigris covered rounds. I wouldn't use AK ammo from Vietnam days; WW2 is ridiculous.
How much of the dumped ammo is coming back to haunt the dumpers is up for speculation.
But you've got a point. We're killing too few bad guys for resourses spent (I consider our soldiers a lot more valuable than materiel.)
Perhaps if we knew who the bad guys were...
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Post #232,205
11/2/05 8:55:55 PM
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eyes, beholders
hnick sez (edited for clarity): We're killing too few bad guys for resources spent. —of course, bystanders aside (and Allah only knows how many of those have been toted up as "terrorist" kills), a significant fraction of the "bad guys" foolishly imagine that they're fighting on behalf of their country to expel a foreign invader. We know, of course, that the Great White Father in Washington wants nothing but good for all the peace-loving people of Wogistania, but you can understand how a buncha ignorant furriners might not see the Big Picture. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
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Post #232,441
11/4/05 12:53:19 PM
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That was priceless.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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