Post #231,363
10/28/05 12:55:28 PM
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Scooter Libby indicted
No link yet, but he has been indicted. So far I've heard three charges, false statements, obstruction of justice and perjury. There could be more charges and more people charged down the road. Both Bush and Fitzgerald are expected to give speeches today, and Libby is expected to resign at some point shortly.
I'll be a little disappointed if they don't get something directly related to the outing of Plame on the charge list. More over, if Libby isn't charged with something direct expect to hear a lot of Republicans try to use that as a defense.
Jay
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Post #231,364
10/28/05 12:59:12 PM
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I think you're going to be disappointed
They can say what they want. There's no accountability. Game over.
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Post #231,365
10/28/05 1:01:32 PM
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at most the direct charge would be releasing classified
material. The identity of any CIA officer is classified. Dont think they can pin this with the outing an undercover law. That one is very specific. I think we will see a Sandy Berger on this indictment.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #231,367
10/28/05 1:01:41 PM
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NY Times/AP says 5 charges.
[link|http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28doc-release.html?hp&ex=1130558400&en=c1d856a2f5885424&ei=5094&partner=homepage|NY Times].
To read it from the horses' mouth after 2pm, go to Fitzgerald's site: [link|http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/index.html|here]. The official Q&A/Press Conference starts in ~ 1 hour.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #231,368
10/28/05 1:29:59 PM
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22 page .pdf
[link|http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/documents/libby_indictment_28102005.pdf|Libby Indictment].
5 counts:
Count 1: Obstruction of Justice (18 U.S.C. \ufffd 1503)
Counts 2-3: False Statements (18 U.S.C. \ufffd 1001(a)(2))
Counts 4-5: Perjury (18 U.S.C. \ufffd 1623)
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #231,372
10/28/05 1:48:54 PM
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Okay, who is official A?
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #231,376
10/28/05 2:12:25 PM
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Karl Rove is an obvious guess.
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Post #231,379
10/28/05 2:24:12 PM
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not really because then he would be charged as well for
mishandling classified inteligence? Im thinking Cheney, and they dont want to take him down.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #231,383
10/28/05 3:02:26 PM
10/28/05 5:16:37 PM
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But the rumors this morning were that...
Rove was still under investigation. That's still [link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102800153.html|the line in the press]: Although no indictment was announced for Rove, 54, the White House deputy chief of staff, today's proceedings did not remove him from legal jeopardy. Sources close to the case said the investigation of Rove is continuing. If Cheney's also involved, they'll probably want to get Rove first (to have more evidence to use against the higher-up). If I had to bet on the outcome, it would be that any indictments won't go higher than Rove. But we'll see. [edit:] There's also this bit in a Washington Post [link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/10/28/DI2005102800985.html|Q&A transcript]: Amherst, Mass.: What do you make of the fact that numerous officials are identified in the indictment by their official positions (e.g. "Under Secretary of State), but "Official A" is treated differently?
Robert G. Kaiser: Good question, and I can't answer it authoritatively. I recall, but am not certain of this, that we have earlier reported that Libby and Karl Rove had a conversation of the kind described in the indictment that occurred between Libby and "Official A." I am trying to get Walter Pincus to clear this up for me right now, but he is busy. We know from Matt Cooper of Time that on the date of that conversation, July 14, 2003, he and Rove had a conversation about Plame.
We're trying to clear up which of two undersecretaries of state this could have been, Marc Grossman or John Bolton. (There are other undersecretaries, but they have narrow and specific areas of responsibility which, I believe, disqualify them as potential iterlocutors with Libby about the Wilsons. I could be wrong about this.) Cheers, Scott.
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Post #231,411
10/28/05 5:22:37 PM
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We lazy folk Appreciate your nonpareil Google-fu!
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Post #231,378
10/28/05 2:23:04 PM
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Libby resigned
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #231,382
10/28/05 2:43:44 PM
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Na na Naaa na, Na na Naaa na, Hey Hey-ay, Good bye!
(The White Sox did just win the Series, after all...)
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #231,400
10/28/05 3:53:02 PM
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If Rove escapes, there is no justice.
Curious that we have no mention of Novak, isn't it? My guess is the Rove is slimy enough to evade indictment. The Republican Party makes Tammany Hall look like a convent.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #231,404
10/28/05 4:47:48 PM
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Y'all are funny
making pretend that this crap is specific to the Republicans.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #231,409
10/28/05 5:16:15 PM
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Oh, let's not demean their creativity, by suggesting
that This crew is 'interchangeable' with any junta in our history, OK?
Credit where due, and all that praise with faint damn stuff.
I mean.. it takes real Chutzpah to choreograph a first-ever SOLO unilateral invasion, with one's intel coming from a separate-from-Govmint internal squad, entirely replacing all that routine Official stuff with ... [whichever 'data' makes it all come out My Way]
(Not that much of those details will come out for a generation or so, if ever - I mean, Nixon forgot to burn the tapes. Karl would never forget.)
But, nice try at fair n'balanced "they're all the same", One More Time.
cha cha
Yellowcake, Yellowcake, Baker's Man
Bake me an Invasion Fast as you Can
Yessir, Yessir, Three (hundred) Bags Full
Lots and lots of Dough, a (more than just one) Humvee squad Full
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Post #231,413
10/28/05 5:24:14 PM
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Lets not get all carried away
You might be forgetting a couple of armed conflits along the way.
Plus...Scooter boy is accused of lying...not overthrowing a government.
And that is a non exclusive endeavor.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #231,416
10/28/05 5:29:52 PM
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Forest! not the trees:__F o r e s t, BeeP!
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Post #231,421
10/28/05 5:54:36 PM
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Alrighty Mr Lumberjack
I guess things like possible communist aggression were valid.
This country plays at empire building under every administration. Y'all are just surprised cause this administration is so open about it.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #231,431
10/28/05 6:22:21 PM
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Hmmm.. not bad.
But since I'm a Lumberjack, then I'm Okay.
Methinks thou dost miss the difference between the employment of, manipulation of vague inferences that Uncle Joe will nuke you in your beds? unless - you pass This ___ expensive and futile Anti-anti-missile-missile for our Mega-Death Industries Consortium (And next year -- we go after the anti-anti-anti version: we must be the Be$t at this 100% Security project.)
AND
Employing with premeditation, specific-while-Bogus reasons as one's propaganda campaign: for taking precipitate action, unaided by traditional allies, disdainful of international consequences, unprepared for anything beyond the first hour in the capital city, ignorant of the Tar Baby assuredly always There, Big-as-Life - er, yada to #137 on list.
So.. cute, but insufficient. Disingenuous, even.
(The Domino Theory proved bogus, maybe too - but it was Sincerely held - and it was sooo Cute, to boot. That's enough for Muricans to salivate, we see. Cute - hair or theory.)
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Post #231,415
10/28/05 5:29:27 PM
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Re: Y'all are funny
When is the last time anybody else owned all three branches of government? They are doing what they want because they can and nobody can stop them. They have sufficient power that rules and ethics do not apply to them. That's pretty specific to the Republicans.
The Democrats probably would if they could, but they've never had the chance. As far as I can see, the only thing seperating Democrats from Republicans is ineptness.
In the past there has been checks and balances. Now there are none and it shows.
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Post #231,459
10/28/05 10:20:20 PM
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Good one.
How you were able to pull "specific to the Republicans" out of that I don't know. but It was still a good one. <snort>
-----------------------------------------
George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty.
--Donald Dean Richards Jr.
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Post #231,467
10/28/05 11:05:15 PM
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Guess you don't read so good
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #231,484
10/29/05 10:27:20 AM
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sentence 3
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #231,680
10/31/05 12:09:37 PM
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I read it as Repos are corrupt.
Not, however, as *only* Repos are corrupt.
-----------------------------------------
George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty.
--Donald Dean Richards Jr.
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Post #231,927
11/1/05 1:56:45 PM
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That's because you know how to read.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #231,944
11/1/05 3:50:53 PM
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Ooooh....ssssssssss
it hurts, it hurts
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #231,950
11/1/05 4:09:48 PM
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here, this will make you feel better
Ah, the good old days Here's the story: In the early 1980s, while Bill Clinton was serving as governor of Arkansas, his administration awarded a contract to Health Management Associates to provide medical care to the state's prisoners. The president of the company was, naturally, a long-time friend and political ally of Clinton and was later appointed by him to the Arkansas Industrial Development Commission. Later, he was among the senior members of Clinton's 1990 gubernatorial re-election team.
As part of the deal HMA struck with Arkansas, in addition to treating the prisoners, the company collected their blood and sold it. Because of the exploding AIDS crisis, U.S. regulations didn't permit the sale of prisoners' blood within the country. But HMA found a willing buyer in Montreal, which brokered a deal with Connaught, a Toronto blood-fractionator, which didn't know the source of the supplies. The blood was distributed throughout Canada by the Red Cross. Sales continued until 1983, when HMA revealed that some of the plasma might be contaminated with the AIDS virus and hepatitis. The blood was also peddled overseas.
Now the lid has been blown off this scandal by Michael Galster, who conducted orthopedic clinics in the Arkansas prison system during the period the blood was collected.
Galster charges HMA officials knew the blood was tainted as they sold it to Canada and a half-dozen other foreign countries. He also alleges that Clinton knew of the scheme and likely benefited from it financially.
"We now have solid evidence he not only knew about it, but he signed off on it," Galster told the Calgary Sun.
Galster says Clinton organized a payoff plan to various officials, including a judge, to make sure the blood sales continued. He claims millions were made from the conspiracy because between 5,000 and 8,000 units of blood were shipped every week from one prison alone. He has eyewitness reports that inmates were even drawing blood from each other with dirty needles. nope no murder here thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #231,983
11/1/05 7:10:33 PM
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Say it ain't so.
After all...his only crime was getting blown, right?
This must be more of that "vast right wing conspiricy".
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #231,984
11/1/05 7:13:20 PM
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Oh, so *that* deal was what the impeachment was all about?
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Post #231,989
11/1/05 7:55:18 PM
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came out after he left
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #232,001
11/1/05 9:16:28 PM
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Came?? Out??
So then, you take this article to be the last word on these massively disgusting allegations? My Gramma did that a lot, too. It fed her need for a daily Fix, to keep the bile flowing.
Why then, has there been no lawsuit for damages?
If they have this alleged (Christian Certainty-grade?) Proof - what's this "story" doing Only in the, what was it.. Ohhhh Yeahhhh, Galster told the Calgary Sun.
Migawd, THE CALGARY SUN has an EXCLUSIVE!
Next step can only be: a Grand Jury, I wot.
Now then, what do we hear from world/Kristol-net daily or the 700 Club?
Betcha got 100 similarly documented Hilary tales, but then Hallowe'en is over for another year.
(Maybe you haven't been reading your sig lately - or is there only that one homily on conspiracy theories?)
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Post #232,050
11/2/05 12:12:39 AM
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It is vast
that right wing conspiricy.
They want him out of power so badly that they will not stop even after he is out of power.
Right?
After all...they only proved that slick willy got the willy slicked that one time! (a Drudge exclusive, no less)
Everything else was simply Ken Starr on a witch hunt.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #232,077
11/2/05 5:44:05 AM
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Hmmm.. reductio AND My Gramma - priceless.
(I thought you were a Christian, not a Jesuit)
Ken Starr meet John Ashcroft and Mr. Calvin; a wacko is a wacko.
As to the Repo mindset - 'conspiracy' is too vague a word for a Belief by this faction, that it must ensure that it retains power indefinitely (as in uninterruptedly) by any means possible.. Even if its plurality is only a percent or two.
Guaranteed polarization, followed by eventual blood - if that pendumum gets stopped-up with dirty tricks. Nothing in the known universe could survive with >8 years of Repo plundering - look what's been pissed away in only 4. (Who needs a pandemic of bugs - we've got Cheney in charge.)
Clinton was benign as a fluffy bunny compared to the PNAC cabal.
Word.
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Post #232,087
11/2/05 7:58:01 AM
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Wonderful defense
the end all being always...
well....
he wasn't that bad.
These guys are worse
My gramma's cuter than yours, I guess.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #232,189
11/2/05 6:09:47 PM
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You need an analog Slime-detector; Yes/No won't cut it.
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Post #232,200
11/2/05 7:28:36 PM
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Hey - BC was a better Republican than the guy in office now!
C'mon, Bill. Even Sam Clemens said: The only uniquely American criminal clas is Congress... Everybody knows that party affiliation does not guarantee virtue -
BUT
This administration is so crooked they can't fit Euclidian geometry - they mak Niixon's crew look like straight shooters.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #232,245
11/3/05 4:00:25 AM
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They aren't a nice bunch
but this is a progression that has been allowed to continue since Carter and BC's years in office laid the foundation for these idiots to make it worse. No respect, no oversight and the complete expectation that >this is how things work in Washington<.
The only way it changes is if more than half of the people that vote understand that its NOT supposed to be like this. I'm not gonna hold my breath.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #232,352
11/3/05 9:44:14 PM
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Kudos: I think you just Nailed it____{sob} No Chance
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Post #232,097
11/2/05 9:27:48 AM
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Yep...just like Fitzgerald is all a witchhunt
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Post #232,121
11/2/05 11:54:40 AM
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Lawsuits filed, won damages paid
[link|http://www.mapleleafweb.com/education/spotlight/issue_60/compensation.html|http://www.mapleleaf...compensation.html] an unimpeachable source that you read daily anyway [link|http://www.salon.com/news/1998/12/cov_23news.html|http://www.salon.com...2/cov_23news.html] The scandals have received little media attention here, but they tainted Clinton's years as governor. Some newspaper columnists at the time said it could jeopardize his reelection. Two longtime friends of Clinton's were embroiled in the mess: Leonard Dunn, a former Pine Bluff banker and now chief of staff for Lt. Gov. Winthrop Rockefeller, served as HMA's president; and Richard Mays, a Little Rock lawyer, judge and Clinton ally, was hired in 1985 as an "ombudsman," an ill-defined position that was supposedly created to help bring the prison medical system into compliance with state standards. The exact payment Mays received, or what his duties were, was never established, and became the subject of a state police investigation because of allegations that it was actually a "bribe" paid to a Clinton supporter to allow the program to continue. gotta start paying attention thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #232,019
11/1/05 10:27:10 PM
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Yep, to quote BP...
the FDA allowed the sale, Canada bought the blood (and never tested it), and this was back in the 80's when they weren't even testing blood for US citizens.
Yep, all Clinton's fault (cough).
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Post #232,051
11/2/05 12:13:56 AM
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True enough
a pox on all their houses.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #231,418
10/28/05 5:33:50 PM
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Well, in that case, there is no justice.
Those extra sessions Rove had with the grand jury were to "clarify and correct his recollections" so that he would not be caught in the trap Scooter is in. At this point it is likely he has a escaped justice.
Alex
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #231,424
10/28/05 5:57:14 PM
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And the press conference...
made it very clear that Cheney is clear of this.
Fitz was very specific when he said the internal gov't conversations were NOT a violation of the law.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #231,454
10/28/05 10:02:58 PM
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believe this to be the case, all of this started at the
vp's office. I think also that Novak may very well carry a clearance for classified info. He gets the info from official A so no fowl 2 cleared people talking. He confirms with another reporter he has primed with info so he has a source to publish. Libby talks to miller. Rove learns from libby and is questioned by reporters for verification. He questioned the meaning of is and slides on the indictment.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #231,406
10/28/05 4:56:20 PM
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Next come the tactics
Heard in discussion on NPR -
Should he go with a judge-only?
Risk: judges are smarter about the implications of a word or phrase, in a cover-up (etc.)
Go with a jury?
Risk: takes time to schedule. Worst case: a trial going on at next election -- whose main import is the proposition, Would Our Government Lie Us into a Quagmire cha cha cha ???
Stand by for megatons of vine-ripened BS; uflminating hyperbole as makes the Spanish Inquisitor's search for demons to exorcise (in 15 yo vaginas) - as lucid as PV=nRT.
No Guts for Impeachment. Yet. Must hope that this crew has fucked up a few more discoverable things than just.. all foreign policy for a generation; obviously - that's OK with the consumers.
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Post #231,407
10/28/05 5:02:47 PM
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nah...
nothing at all. Jury...take the time to schedule..then comes the pardon.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #231,410
10/28/05 5:19:56 PM
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You just may be right -
'Appearances' just don't matter to this dance troupe - and.. it's Worked thus far.
Why not to the bitter end?
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Post #231,414
10/28/05 5:24:47 PM
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What do appearances have to do with pardons?
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #231,417
10/28/05 5:30:48 PM
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(If you have to ask..)
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Post #231,422
10/28/05 5:55:32 PM
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True that the real money ones
are always made at the end of a Presidents term.
Lest someone "questionable" get one.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #231,463
10/28/05 10:36:47 PM
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Well, at least this time,
Libby can write up his own request for a pardon...he's got a lot of experience.
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Post #231,423
10/28/05 5:56:58 PM
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But what if it takes too long?
Delay, delay, delay, end up with a Democrat in the White House.
Would be bad for him.
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Post #231,455
10/28/05 10:04:17 PM
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If guilty choose jury, if innocent get a judge
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #231,426
10/28/05 6:02:02 PM
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Transcript of Fitzgerald's Press Conference.
[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801340_pf.html|Washington Post] (printer friendly page). It sounds like it's not over by a long shot: QUESTION: Mr. Fitzgerald, this began as a leak investigation but no one is charged with any leaking. Is your investigation finished? Is this another leak investigation that doesn't lead to a charge of leaking?
FITZGERALD: Let me answer the two questions you asked in one.
OK, is the investigation finished? It's not over, but I'll tell you this: Very rarely do you bring a charge in a case that's going to be tried and would you ever end a grand jury investigation.
I can tell you, the substantial bulk of the work in this investigation is concluded.
FITZGERALD: This grand jury's term has expired by statute; it could not be extended. But it's in ordinary course to keep a grand jury open to consider other matters, and that's what we will be doing.
Let me then ask your next question: Well, why is this a leak investigation that doesn't result in a charge? I've been trying to think about how to explain this, so let me try. I know baseball analogies are the fad these days. Let me try something.
If you saw a baseball game and you saw a pitcher wind up and throw a fastball and hit a batter right smack in the head, and it really, really hurt them, you'd want to know why the pitcher did that. And you'd wonder whether or not the person just reared back and decided, "I've got bad blood with this batter. He hit two home runs off me. I'm just going to hit him in the head as hard as I can."
You also might wonder whether or not the pitcher just let go of the ball or his foot slipped, and he had no idea to throw the ball anywhere near the batter's head. And there's lots of shades of gray in between.
You might learn that you wanted to hit the batter in the back and it hit him in the head because he moved. You might want to throw it under his chin, but it ended up hitting him on the head.
FITZGERALD: And what you'd want to do is have as much information as you could. You'd want to know: What happened in the dugout? Was this guy complaining about the person he threw at? Did he talk to anyone else? What was he thinking? How does he react? All those things you'd want to know.
And then you'd make a decision as to whether this person should be banned from baseball, whether they should be suspended, whether you should do nothing at all and just say, "Hey, the person threw a bad pitch. Get over it."
In this case, it's a lot more serious than baseball. And the damage wasn't to one person. It wasn't just Valerie Wilson. It was done to all of us.
And as you sit back, you want to learn: Why was this information going out? Why were people taking this information about Valerie Wilson and giving it to reporters? Why did Mr. Libby say what he did? Why did he tell Judith Miller three times? Why did he tell the press secretary on Monday? Why did he tell Mr. Cooper? And was this something where he intended to cause whatever damage was caused?
FITZGERALD: Or did they intend to do something else and where are the shades of gray?
And what we have when someone charges obstruction of justice, the umpire gets sand thrown in his eyes. He's trying to figure what happened and somebody blocked their view.
As you sit here now, if you're asking me what his motives were, I can't tell you; we haven't charged it.
So what you were saying is the harm in an obstruction investigation is it prevents us from making the fine judgments we want to make.
I also want to take away from the notion that somehow we should take an obstruction charge less seriously than a leak charge.
This is a very serious matter and compromising national security information is a very serious matter. But the need to get to the bottom of what happened and whether national security was compromised by inadvertence, by recklessness, by maliciousness is extremely important. We need to know the truth. And anyone who would go into a grand jury and lie, obstruct and impede the investigation has committed a serious crime. But he also downplays extending the investigation, so it's hard to know what'll happen next. He should be the one replacing Greenspan at the Federal Reserve - he's rather inscrutible. ;-) Cheers, Scott.
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Post #231,449
10/28/05 8:56:28 PM
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Re: extending the investigation?
I think Fitz is done and just means to file his last week's expense report.
But, I agree he's a straight arrow and won't be tricked into saying anything he shouldn't.
Alex
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #232,391
11/4/05 3:07:22 AM
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That's never his real name.
No WAY.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #232,403
11/4/05 7:49:08 AM
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No, you're right. It's "I. Lewis 'Scooter' Libby", IIRC.
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Post #232,406
11/4/05 8:16:57 AM
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..., Jr.
Juniors are often given nicknames, at least in the US. E.g., I have a cousin who's a junior who was called "Butch" when he was growing up. Scooter has [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Libby|two stories behind it].
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #232,420
11/4/05 10:13:50 AM
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Damn, you poor Yanks must be totally bereft of imagination.
Seems half of you is called "Something Jr"... And the other half is evenly divided between "Whatever III"s and "Whoozis IV"s.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105|Mr. Hat]
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Post #232,422
11/4/05 10:23:34 AM
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Hey! Not so fast
There are still a few of us who are unique! I'm a "first"
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Post #232,423
11/4/05 10:24:00 AM
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Well, we generally only have 3 names; make up for it with #s
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Post #232,425
11/4/05 10:36:33 AM
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You got a PROBLEM with that?!?
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #232,625
11/6/05 5:09:53 PM
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Heck no, *I* don't... (I only think *you* do! ;-)
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Post #232,429
11/4/05 11:00:13 AM
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jim billy joe bob finorten, she might take issue with that
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #232,482
11/4/05 7:01:58 PM
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It's Simple: remember the 'Two Sheds' (Jackson?) skit?
So it ain't Just the Colonials what attaches silly labels to meat-ware.
(How's about The Virgin Queen?) cha cha
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