Should I fight Allstate insurance company?

My daughter was in an auto accident, nobody hurt, where she was not at fault. Other driver admitted that he was in the wrong, and was issued a "failure to yield" citation by the police.

Basically, he was trying to avoid traffic and took a short cut. Came out at a T intersection. Standing/waiting traffic on the northbound lane, daughter heading south. Other car (headed west) pulled out behind/between standing traffic to make a left turn. Slammed into my daughter's car (his pass,her driver side, sending her into the grass at the side of the road.

I've done the accident reconstruction. Took pics and measurements. It looks as if she was already exiting the intersection when he hit her.

Allstate's position, SHe failed to try to avoid the accident, and she didn't slow down at the intersection. (ftw the speed limit for her was 45, which she was travelling) Therefore, she is liable for 10-15% of the damages to her car, due to her negligence. Damage to her car is $2000, so we're only talking $200-$300, which to a 17 y/o is a lot of money, but to me it's the principle.

I've appealed to the supervisor. Same results. She said, if you don't like my decision, then sue the other driver in small claims court and we'll be there to explain our decision and we'll let the judge decide.

So....

Opinions?

Allstate is other driver's insurance
Farmers is ours.
We do not have collision, so nothing can be done by our agent (already checked)

Allstate has admitted fault. They are trying to assess "comparable negligence". (Did my daughter do everything possible to avoid the accident)

Minnesota is a no fault state.

Here is the statute they are pinning everything on: (MN 169.14)

Subd. 3. Reduced speed required. (a) The driver of any vehicle shall, consistent with the requirements, drive at an appropriate reduced speed when approaching or passing an authorized emergency vehicle stopped with emergency lights flashing on any street or highway, when approaching and crossing an intersection or railway grade crossing, when approaching and going around a curve, when approaching a hill crest, when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway, and when special hazards exist with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.

Emphasis mine. Does this change any of your suggestions?

Post #229,950 by jbrabeck 10/18/05 1:40:12 PM Reply	Should I fight Allstate insurance company? My daughter was in an auto accident, nobody hurt, where she was not at fault. Other driver admitted that he was in the wrong, and was issued a "failure to yield" citation by the police. Basically, he was trying to avoid traffic and took a short cut. Came out at a T intersection. Standing/waiting traffic on the northbound lane, daughter heading south. Other car (headed west) pulled out behind/between standing traffic to make a left turn. Slammed into my daughter's car (his pass,her driver side, sending her into the grass at the side of the road. I've done the accident reconstruction. Took pics and measurements. It looks as if she was already exiting the intersection when he hit her. Allstate's position, SHe failed to try to avoid the accident, and she didn't slow down at the intersection. (ftw the speed limit for her was 45, which she was travelling) Therefore, she is liable for 10-15% of the damages to her car, due to her negligence. Damage to her car is $2000, so we're only talking $200-$300, which to a 17 y/o is a lot of money, but to me it's the principle. I've appealed to the supervisor. Same results. She said, if you don't like my decision, then sue the other driver in small claims court and we'll be there to explain our decision and we'll let the judge decide. So.... Opinions? A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #229,951 by boxley 10/18/05 1:48:58 PM Reply	rip them a new one starting with the Insurance commisioner No where in my Allstate policy does it state I am liable for anything except the deductable unless I am commiting a criminal act or an act of war or terrorism is commited on me. My deductable is higher than the 2-300 bucks though. thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #229,954 by boxley 10/18/05 1:50:31 PM Reply	Also sniff around to see if there is any class action suits against allstate. They are the cheaper guys but as you have found out a bitch to get them to pay. thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #229,955 by ben_tilly 10/18/05 1:59:03 PM Reply	Maybe They get away with this crap because they know full well that most people will not fight it. If people did, then it would be cheaper for them to give you the benefit of the doubt. That said, look carefully at your policy to see whether you will win. The fact that your daughter was not legally at fault does not mean that a defensive driver would not have avoided the accident. If their standards are based on whether it was avoidable, then the fact that you were legally doing the right thing in the right place does not necessarily mean that you'll win this judgement. The other thing to look at is what this means for your daughter's premiums. Is it possible that if she accepts some responsibility for the accident, that her premiums will go up more? If so, then you could be talking a lot more than $200-$300! Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #229,961 by jbrabeck 10/18/05 2:26:59 PM Reply	Clarification She in 100% not at fault for the accident. Allstate is the other driver's insurance company. Thier contention is she didn't slow down for the intersection. (169.14) My counter is that she was already exiting the intersection when the other driver hit her, and that there was no time for evasive action. A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #229,962 by boxley 10/18/05 2:31:43 PM Reply	different circumstances they as defendants will try to leach you as low as possible. If the total damages are 2k or less they are right in suggesting small claims court. My suggestion is to have your daughter seen by a doctor for depression and politely submit the medical bill to Allstate asking them to pay these costs until the matter is settled. thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #229,964 by drewk 10/18/05 2:34:02 PM Reply	Call your state's Attorney General now They're liable and completely relying on your unwillingness to fight them. Contact the AG before you talk to Allstate or any lawyer. Once there's litigation involved the AG can't get involved. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #230,015 by folkert 10/18/05 9:21:28 PM Reply	Do ^^^ this first. Then take my advice if warranted. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #230,042 by mmoffitt 10/19/05 9:58:17 AM Reply	Yes! Ask for the Consumer Protection Division. And file a formal complaint. A lot of states now have an online complaint form. If your state doesn't, call their office and they'll send you one. The cool thing about that is that Allstate will have to respond directly to the AG, not you. By doing this (and this might vary by state, I'm not sure, but every state I've lived in as an adult does it this way) you are making the AG the middle-man between you. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #229,990 by ben_tilly 10/18/05 5:45:33 PM Reply	Definitely fight it! (But see Drew's advice.) I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #229,966 by bepatient 10/18/05 2:35:59 PM Reply	Talk to your insurance company Have them file for the remainder. It will take a long time, but you will likely get it back. Had the same situation in reverse with my daughter. Driver was across yellow skipping traffic at a light, she was inching out of a lot and he took the nose of her car off. They initially said we get nothing. It took several months...but I got 85% at the end. So, in the end, yes...bitch about it...but get your agent involved...thats why you pay them. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #230,014 by folkert 10/18/05 9:20:00 PM Reply	Bill, Allstate == company for both parties. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #230,020 by bepatient 10/18/05 10:15:34 PM Reply	Still, agent can/should counterclaim That would be step one before dealing with lawyers and such. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #230,013 by folkert 10/18/05 9:19:26 PM Reply	My wife is an Insurance Agents Certified Coverage specialist. She has been in the car/home/health/life/etc insurance for the last 21 years. This is the first time she has ever heard partial assesment of blame by insurance. First off, is your state a No-Fault State? If it is, they can't do that. Second, ask them what law they are using to get around your coverage. Please ask for the proof they used to assess this. Third, get the police report. Go over it, with possible, with the officer that wrote it. Verify what he/she wrote. After you do this, ask an Attorney to review your situation to see if they think anything is a miss. Most attorneys will do this for a small charge or none at all. Good luck. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #230,021 by jbrabeck 10/18/05 10:25:56 PM Reply	Just a couple more clarifications Allstate is other driver's insurance Farmers is ours. We do not have collision, so nothing can be done by our agent (already checked) Allstate has admitted fault. They are trying to assess "comparable negligence". (Did my daughter do everything possible to avoid the accident) Minnesota is a no fault state. Here is the statute they are pinning everything on: (MN 169.14) Subd. 3. Reduced speed required. (a) The driver of any vehicle shall, consistent with the requirements, drive at an appropriate reduced speed when approaching or passing an authorized emergency vehicle stopped with emergency lights flashing on any street or highway, when approaching and crossing an intersection or railway grade crossing, when approaching and going around a curve, when approaching a hill crest, when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway, and when special hazards exist with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions. Emphasis mine. Does this change any of your suggestions? A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #230,024 by drewk 10/18/05 10:44:27 PM Reply	Not mine, call the AG That's what you pay him for. I'll bet you lunch that as soon as you describe the issue they tell you chapter and paragraph of what consumer protection law they're violating. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #230,026 by Another Scott 10/18/05 10:48:19 PM Reply	Dunno about the other suggestions - they sound reasonable. Let's read some more of [link\|http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/169/14.html\|MN 169.14]: Subd. 7. Burden of proof. The provisions of this chapter declaring speed limitation shall not be construed to relieve the plaintiff in any civil action from the burden of proving negligence on the part of the defendant as the proximate cause of an accident. IANAL, but I read that as saying that Allstate would need to prove that your daughter was not driving at an "appropriate reduced speed" and/or prove that she was negligent. (I think appropriate is the operative word there.) IOW, Allstate has to prove that your daughter had any responsibility for the accident. The fact that it happened to her in an intersection does not prove that she didn't obey Subd. 3. I wouldn't let Allstate get away with this, but you need professional advice about what to do next. Your insurance agent should be able to offer some advice as well (they really should handle the whole thing, IMO). HTH. Best of luck! Cheers, Scott.
Post #230,036 by bepatient 10/19/05 8:29:06 AM Reply	Not having collision shouldn't matter You're not asking your agent to pay, you're asking your agent what arbitration rights you have to get your full award. Completely different...and back to my earlier post is exactly why you pay the person. Keep after them, becasue they really don't like to work for the money you pay them. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #230,039 by boxley 10/19/05 9:43:12 AM Reply	Allstate doesnt want to pay, that is their function now the 2k might be settled if they thought their obligation was going to be much higher. All companies will settle anything below 7.5k they will go to court regardless of fault in cases over that amount. Now I think your daughter should submit a medical claim that will push the amount to about 6k. Settle for the original 2k. thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #230,054 by folkert 10/19/05 12:01:38 PM Reply	That changes nothing. Do the AG first, if he/she suggests followup in civil court then proceed further. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #234,654 by jbrabeck 11/17/05 10:10:49 AM Reply	Updates Sent letter to AG. (No, not Andrew) Received a reply last week. AG sent a letter to Allstate HQ asking for review. Allstate has 10 days to reply. AG also suggested filing a complaint with Dept of Commerce, which regulates insurance companies in MN. Did so yesterday. In the meantime, I took car in to Tires Plus to have alignment/suspension checked. They found a bent left steering knuckle. Repair cost ~$500. Sent that to Allstate. Waiting to see how that impacts thier decision. Car could now be considered "totaled" - cost more to repair that car is worth. Will post more as replies are received. A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #234,659 by Another Scott 11/17/05 10:15:07 AM Reply	Thanks. Keep after them. Best of luck.
Post #234,698 by folkert 11/17/05 12:31:30 PM Reply	Excellent, please continue biting at the heels... They will get pissy, but you have the AG and DoCommerce asking questions for you as well. Hope they recant. Make sure you are explin to them, it is about the money, but more importantly the principal of the matter. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #234,719 by jb4 11/17/05 2:56:52 PM Reply	Good news! Keep on keepin' on! jb4 shrub●bish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #234,758 by imqwerky 11/17/05 6:58:19 PM Reply	Go get 'em, Tiger! "It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
Post #234,791 by cforde 11/17/05 10:56:35 PM Reply	keep after them Have fun, Carl Forde
Post #242,328 by jbrabeck 1/24/06 1:23:00 PM Reply	Resolution After fighting since September, with letters to everyone, my daughter said to "give up and take the 10%". I called them and received instructions on mailing the title and what would happen. Title was mailed. Car was picked up. Check received yesterday. For the full amount! No deduction! Go figure. A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #242,329 by Steve Lowe 1/24/06 1:26:04 PM Reply	:-) cool! -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu]
Post #242,333 by Another Scott 1/24/06 1:37:22 PM Reply	Woot!
Post #242,353 by jb4 1/24/06 5:08:56 PM Reply	AwwRIGHT! jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #242,364 by imqwerky 1/24/06 8:55:33 PM Reply	David 1, Goliath 0 :-) "It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
Post #242,383 by cforde 1/25/06 12:43:28 AM Reply	gotta like that, good for you. Have fun, Carl Forde
Post #242,386 by Ashton 1/25/06 2:30:41 AM Reply	Sometimes corps. slip and__ do the right thing.
Post #242,387 by CRConrad 1/25/06 2:32:22 AM Reply	Sehr gut!
Post #242,463 by a6l6e6x 1/25/06 4:43:36 PM Reply	Well done. Alex The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #243,058 by Nightowl 1/31/06 12:54:40 PM Reply	Glad to hear it! "I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"

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