Post #226,389
9/25/05 4:44:23 PM
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The Fog of War
Documentary of Robert McNamara. Fascinating. My great uncle was an "operative" under McN. Only lately can he disclose his participation in the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis, as well as Viet Nam.
Does a good job of humanizing Mr. McN. Sure wish Mr. Bush would watch and take heed. Found quite a few similarities between Viet Nam and Iraq, but then ol' Georgie isn't about to let a Dem sympathizer tell him what to do, now is he?
Pity.
Peace, anyone? Amy
RIP, Mr. Wiesenthal.
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Post #226,461
9/26/05 1:29:15 AM
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history?
that's old news. never learn anything from that. He knows what he's doing, even if no one else does.
Have fun, Carl Forde
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Post #226,485
9/26/05 4:39:50 AM
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To be complete: don't read the New news, either.__Covered.
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Post #226,600
9/26/05 6:59:03 PM
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Bush went to Yale from 1964 to 1968; his highest grades were
88s in anthropology, history, and philosophy one wonders about those east coast ivy league schools :-) thanx, bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #227,240
9/30/05 12:34:25 AM
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It's often a puzzlement -
An Aunt (of whose estate I was Conservator.. had to toss lots of stuff) had always manifested as kinda flighty; I never had a 'deep' conversation with her (from infancy on) on any topic.
(She was the one, in NYC/Queens who gave me MBA-style Explicit instructions for riding the IND line from Queens to Columbus Circle And Right Back. As-if it was a Real Trip. I was 9.5; went to Statue/Liberty 3x on the boat, IRT and BMT lines etc.) ie she misunderestimated moi by some amount == that was the pattern. And, she Worried a lot.
So then: I come across a class essay, U Wisconsin - wherein she said some incisive, maybe even original things.. I'd Never have connected that <--> with Her!
So Who Knows -?- what all that coke and wastreling-about dredged-up inside Shrub? (We Know ~how it came about that he hit on his most successful ploy - seduction of the Evangels, just by mentioning Jesus a lot.) But I doubt he got the rest of the manufactured Persona from anything Ivy..? Maybe from a friendly pusher?
Dunno..
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Post #227,248
9/30/05 3:10:20 AM
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PBS is replaying the '60s this week. McN is InThere alright
Anyone catch this? (Anyone visited the Vietnam Memorial?)
SF State: Hayakawa rippin the speaker wires off a sound truck; Ed Meese talkin about advising Gov Reagan to send the CHP to State to protect its new 'conservative' (Read: anti- the antiwar 'mob') Chancellor, etc. 'Ol Spiro talkin 'bout them nattering nabobs of negativism (not long before resigning over some graft.) Meese later had a similar problem, but I don't recall how that turned out. He's not in jail now though, IIRC.
MLK said in '65, My country is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world. Pity that most-all here Missed all that exciting stuff - maybe scanned a few soundbites of our 24/7 daily fare, in some archive for a class? Hey.. there were, in fact: some actual street barricades! Some got heads cracked, some maimed - a few deaths. Kent State + callow-youth National Guard. Nothing like 'Nam, of course.
Reminded me of how many, and how massive - had to become the public demonstrations before the likes of Nixon, Kissinger, McNamara et al would move an iota from Staying The Course - towards ceasing the slaughter. That toll (just-US is all We count, natch) reached 58,nnn; don't recall % as occurred during the throes of getting-ready-to Start to actually Get Out of that charnel house.
Nixon kept the pot boiling, (thanks to the assassination of RFK == only way he got in, in '68) -- for ~5 years. All that napalm, Agent Orange, megatons of CO2 producing detonations: signifying, producing, improving.. absolutely Nothing.
In the newest, daily Hotting-Up charnel house it's a mere 19xx dead + the thousands of permanently-maimed (just Our boys And girls, of course).
But.. it seems that the $$-cost of the recent water unpleasantness is the larger driver of Negative Ratings on the cabal: than any appreciation of the direction that the Insurrection is heading - some say has already arrived --> the Iraq Civil War.
(And there're few of those alleged $100Bs for schools, infrastructure (blown-up then restarted) etc. as are not being spent mostly, now - to 'train Iraqis' to [Hah] Impose Democracy.) Amidst the 3- 4-Way? w/Kurds irreconcilable God supporters with centuries of traditional, lethal polarization.
Will many be able to afford the gas / fare for 1M or so walking bodies in DC, this time around? Will it take 5 years, again - or 5 months?
1968 + 40 = 2008 Gimme 50:1 odds, and I'll bet $20 on Impeachment(s) or resignations by mid-2008. (However the 'withdrawal' is choreographed, in Save-Face-space.)
(Of course I ain't prescient - can't estimate when? how? the wanna-be martyrs we've manufactured (of those multiple surviving relatives and clan-members) - will hit a ground-zero or three, here in the Fatherland. Doubt Lloyds will take any bets on that one, either. Yet.)
Perhaps I'm being impatient. Unlike Klaatu, I don't live on a planet where, We've abolished stupidity. (But I'm sure that Patricia Neal's character really wanted to join him in that saucer..) Robert Wise (director of Day the Earth Stood Still) died recently. Are all our smarter Old Ones dropping like flies - or does it just seem so?
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Post #227,471
10/1/05 8:54:28 AM
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Was he lying then or is he lying now?
or both
self-serving crap
A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
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Post #227,560
10/1/05 10:01:45 PM
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Many have built upon his Example -quite as popular today-
of academic rationalizations + stream of unconsciousness masquerading as story-telling. He was a mondo- ""bright"" (which I think, too-often ==> glib) young Turk; many of the mannerisms of JFK - but without the humanity (?) (If there was any of that? I never saw it in the numerous video and other sources of the day).
Hey.. just imagine you're hearing 'ol Chainsaw [whatsisname], The Donald or any wanna-be MBA: 'explaining' how to Grow the Enterprise. An Object devoid of any social consideration whatsoever - except as supplier of 'goods' (fodder, in the 'Nam case) and for a certain 'profit' - Credit as a Winner (in the 'Nam case).
The Enterprise for McN was (solely): 'Winning' this War, which was happening on His (Ego)-Shift.)
Building a bizness which regards its employees as overhead and solidly in the Debit column - is no different from prosecuting that 'war', well beyond there being no hope of prevailing: only Killing More and saying,
We're Making Progress ... .. No, Really! this time I Mean It ... Check The Body Count!
So study the sucker and look around -- his Extremely Costly example should not be lost to another generation.. by imagining it was some past, solitary personal fuck-up: it's a really Popular Model, still.
(And I agree: we'll never Know where the on-camera McN ruminator begins/ends. AFAICR - he's never overtly said), ~ It was Wrong! / I was Wrong! / I can't now Imagine how I could atone!
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Post #227,561
10/1/05 10:15:58 PM
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"Chainsaw" Al Dunlap - ex Sunbeam.
[link|http://securities.stanford.edu/news-archive/2002/20020904_Settlement03_Roland.htm|Stanford Law School]. He was a piece of work, wasn't he... :-(
With luck, the pain that good companies are having to go through with [link|http://www.aicpa.org/info/sarbanes_oxley_summary.htm|Sarbanes-Oxley] won't be in vain and it will be much harder for his type of manager to achieve positions of power again.
Cheers, Scott.
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Post #227,565
10/1/05 11:16:57 PM
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Unfortunately,
I don't think SOx will ever see the light of day. Part of the situation surrounding our current financial crisis stems from the fact that big bidnesses have successfully lobbied for a 2 year reprieve from complying with the SOx legislation.
How are companies ever going to show accountability if the watch-dog legislation is never enforced?
Thanks to the current pro-business climate, it may take up to five years for SOx to gain some teeth.
I think that Dynamic Pessimist thread is taking root in my head. I don't even see the light at the end of the tunnel.
The future does not look good for us in our current situation.
No peace. No peace at all. Amy
Oh Freddled Gruntbuggly!
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Post #227,569
10/2/05 1:31:12 AM
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Pukka slimitude - embed in amber? (er, soon?)
We know there are slime. And we know (now) - as that laughable "fine" illustrates: just what difference is made to any vestigial idea of 'justice' - when we witness how much can be dismantled in a mere few dozens of months. And especially when we notice how much overt cynical manipulation can pass right over the heads of most-all major media - unprocessed, unquestioned; mostly, unmentioned.
What remains a major mystery to me is - how it is that these uninvolved blue-collars in Red States so utterly Admire nay Adore slime.. after all these years of living out the loss of pensions, any semblance of mutual 'trust' employer/employee. It can't be All about little-Jesus. Or can it? {shudder} Father Coughlan redux: 70 years late?
Not just blue-ies, either - Next level 'up' - with-ties: the ad hoc End of the "40 hour work week" - for which, so many died. Unclear if more than 1% working today ever noticed How that '40' number came to be.
Many of both classes are quite old enough to have been through an educational system not nearly so mangled as lately - or post Prop 13 in CA (however varied the local quality, nationally.) Have this many Muricans missed ever even considering, what the phrase "enlightened self-interest" refers to?
I've seen a total of maybe 15 minutes of The Donald. Could take <= 5 min at a time. It is just as much a mystery to me that this is even called, 'entertainment'. It is YAN portrayal of smug humiliation; the inducement of people to smear feces all over selves, publicly!- merely to be Liked by a Slime. (Is there much difference between this 'show' and Lyndie England; the dog-collar guy in tow: with a Donald smarl on her face?)
And.. that this 'show' could be Renewed! == akin to the Shrubcon renewal (though that event is about quite more than "the nature of perverse 'entertainment'".)
We may as well enjoy the show as spectators - how could anyone 'plan' their way out of this much Crap descending this quickly, on so many levels of crapitude - and in a milieu of just plain ignorant ennui? It IS, almost to laugh!
ha. ha. cha
Damn.. not a known sinsemilla supplier within a hundred miles -
...now then Dmitri -
You know how we've always talked about 'something going wrong with the bomb'
...
the bomb, Dmitri - the Hydrogen bomb - -
...
Well, Dmitri .. you see -
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