Worse than Ashtonese or Boxlish?

Post #226,354 by Nightowl 9/25/05 2:26:16 AM 9/25/05 2:29:52 AM Reply	Worse than Ashtonese or Boxlish? I have read this paragraph six times and I still have no concept of what it means. Can anyone interpret SILatin? (Regarding separating my family report from my letter): "If it was separated for all, it would allow \ufffdThe Turnbow News\ufffd to be subject to the concerns of other Turnbows about accuracy. They might also like to reduce any editorial aspects of its presentation.<< Huh? Subject to the concerns???? Reduce what??? Editorial aspects of it's presentation? I'm lost here. And can anyone tell me what she's trying to say below? "I would think it would be to your advantage to NOT send the letter to those whom you believe wanted to tell you what to write. Then they won\ufffdt know what you\ufffdre saying that would have bothered them. Most people don\ufffdt like for anyone to speak for them." Man... this is worse than Ashtonese, because even a DICTIONARY isn't helping. Sheesh... (pondering sending her the next letter in Ashtonese all over again). Brenda "I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!" Edited by Nightowl Sept. 25, 2005, 02:29:52 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #226,368 by boxley 9/25/05 11:53:15 AM Reply	what part of "oh fine you write the dam thing" does your SIL not understand? /me would be washing my hands of the whole shiteree about now and watch sports on TV instead. Epithet "Fuck you" Epistle, Epiphany "I have recieved the insight from my higher power to say "Fuck you, thank you very much"" thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #226,390 by ben_tilly 9/25/05 4:52:13 PM 9/25/05 7:36:10 PM Reply	Explanation She is saying that "The Turnbow News" is inaccurate and poorly written. She'd like to have more influence over it. Lacking context, I can't tell whether she's offering to write it, or offering to give you lots of criticism on it. Probably she's planning to offer criticism. In the second passage she's telling you not to send the letter to those who might want to tell you what to write. Then they won't have anything to be upset at. Incidentally the trick that she's using to confuse you is simple. She is turning every sentence around to say it in a convoluted way. The technical description is "using the passive voice". Basically there are two ways to say something, directly, or indirectly. Saying it directly is called the active voice because there are usually a lot of things acting on other things. Saying it indirectly is called the passive voice because nouns have things done do them. Simple example. The cat climbed the tree. (Active) The tree was climbed by the cat. (Passive) Here is the amusing bit. Modern style guides almost always recommend the active voice over the passive. This has been the case for over 40 years. Unless they changed in a recent version, Microsoft Word will analyze your writing for signs of the passive voice and suggest that they be corrected. Why? As [link\|http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_actpass.html\|this guide from Purdue] points out, Sentences in active voice are generally--though not always-- clearer and more direct than those in passive voice. Your SIL's writing is an excellent (bad) example. If I was in your position I'd reply, I won't take your suggestions because I believe that your writing is harder to understand than mine. For instance, contrary to the recommendation of all major style guides, you overuse the passive voice. You'll be more readily understood if you fix this. For further suggestions, I recommend that you read the guide to Plain English at [link\|http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/plainenglishguide.html\|http://www.plainengl...englishguide.html] and follow its suggestions. Cheers, Ben PS This woman sounds like a real piece of work. I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother) Edited by ben_tilly Sept. 25, 2005, 07:36:10 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #226,399 by Ashton 9/25/05 7:07:40 PM Reply	{Guffaw!} Award: 1\ufffd Emmys + an Edgar for aptly-hidden Snide!
Post #226,552 by Nightowl 9/26/05 1:25:02 PM Reply	SILatin She is saying that "The Turnbow News" is inaccurate and poorly written. She'd like to have more influence over it. Lacking context, I can't tell whether she's offering to write it, or offering to give you lots of criticism on it. Probably she's planning to offer criticism. In the second passage she's telling you not to send the letter to those who might want to tell you what to write. Then they won't have anything to be upset at. Thanks, I was really not grasping all that. Incidentally the trick that she's using to confuse you is simple. She is turning every sentence around to say it in a convoluted way. The technical description is "using the passive voice". Basically there are two ways to say something, directly, or indirectly. Saying it directly is called the active voice because there are usually a lot of things acting on other things. Saying it indirectly is called the passive voice because nouns have things done do them. Simple example. The cat climbed the tree. (Active) The tree was climbed by the cat. (Passive) Here is the amusing bit. Modern style guides almost always recommend the active voice over the passive. This has been the case for over 40 years. Unless they changed in a recent version, Microsoft Word will analyze your writing for signs of the passive voice and suggest that they be corrected. Why? As [link\|http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_actpass.html\|this guide from Purdue] points out, Sentences in active voice are generally--though not always-- clearer and more direct than those in passive voice. Your SIL's writing is an excellent (bad) example. If I was in your position I'd reply, I won't take your suggestions because I believe that your writing is harder to understand than mine. For instance, contrary to the recommendation of all major style guides, you overuse the passive voice. You'll be more readily understood if you fix this. For further suggestions, I recommend that you read the guide to Plain English at [link\|http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/plainenglishguide.html\|http://www.plainengl...englishguide.html] and follow its suggestions. I love it! I'll keep it in mind, for the next response! Thanks Ben, you have been very helpful! Brenda "I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"
Post #226,584 by Nightowl 9/26/05 4:50:58 PM Reply	Combining all your advice, Thanks! Light dawns...SIL is behaving like a female Orion! And that is a known factor that I have much experience in handling! BEN: PS This woman sounds like a real piece of work. She is, Ben, the things that she says to and about people and in front of other people are just shocking at times. But now that I know what I'm dealing with, I think I have a way to shut this down to a small trickle. I can't ever handle her like Orion, all though I wish, hehehe, because completely cutting her out of my life isn't an option if I want to maintain any family unity. But she has clearly stated now that she isn't interested in "fixing" the relationship, so now I know exactly what to do. Another Scott: I don't know enough about her to know whether she's genuinely trying to help or whether she enjoys "correcting" others. Either way, it doesn't really matter. Shrug it off and move on. Your writing is fine.Life's too short to be worried by such criticism. ;-) Okay, well now we KNOW. She says she enjoys helping, but she also corrects everyone. Not only that, but her most recent letter makes it clear that she still won't allow me to have my own opinion. Ex, a quote from her letter: "On another point: I don\ufffdt feel the need to \ufffdconsciously [agree] to disagree\ufffd. It implies that I will be happy with your opinion. And that is not necessarily the case." I looked it up, my brother married her in 1990. Do you realize that I've been putting up with this woman's antics for 15 years, without ever feeling free to tell her what I think, how I feel, and to stay out of my business? This was because mom would beg me not to, not to rock the boat, not to cause problems. Well I've been UNLEASHED! I can say what I want where I want and how I want to SIL, and that is now the plan. And that feels healthy, unlike the rest. And that doesn't mean I'm going to fight with her, nor does it mean I'm going to have a long drawn out battle, either. What it means is she is now in the category of Orion, and will be treated as such: Example: She tried to comment about the reasonable accomodations I expect from in a work place (per my disability), and then went on to state I was unhirable. My reply was simple: "My ability to work or not and the accomodations thereof regarding being employed, (not regarding anything else), is not for you to be involved in and I will not discuss it further." I've been on IWT a long time now. I've learned ways to "shut down an argument: without casting bait to continue it. I've learned ways from you all to stop a fight and not necessarily lose, and I've learned how to take steps to counter someone who is constantly on my back about something. I intend to take all this newly found knowledge and sic it on SIL.. and she won't know what hit her. After 15 years of giving in, cowtowing to her, and being badgered over the head till she wins, she's about to meet the REAL Owl. And I promise, this won't be at the expense of my health or anything else. I am no longer really upset, if that explains anything. Instead I finally feel in control of my emotions where she is concerned, and simply don't give a damn anymore about trying to please her or bending over backwards for her. No more, I'm DONE. So after I get to say all the things I've wanted to say to her for years, (which shouldn't take too long, because she's had many repeat behaviors), Then I can shut her down to the level of a less close family member, someone I have to deal with on a family basis, and hopefully a working relationship that functions only for the Reunion Committee. Box: what part of "oh fine you write the dam thing"does your SIL not understand? /me would be washing my hands of the whole shiteree about now and watch sports on TV instead.Epistle, Epiphany "I have recieved the insight from my higher power to say "Fuck you, thank you very much"" Actually Box, that was such a good idea, that I talked to Katie about it, and she is willing to take the Family Report part off my hands. That leaves me with just my monthly letter, which was never created for the family, and is mine and mine alone. So hopefully very soon, they can be writing it themselves, and I will only be writing the main letters for the Reunion, of which there are only three a year. I won't tell her to Fuck off, at least probably not, but I'm working on good phrases that say the same thing without the cussing. Sentences that shut her down... example she wrote: "...you are so difficult to deal with! My reply? "Don't deal with me then!" And regarding the sports, this mess has already caused me to miss hearing two Penguin Pre-Season Games, and miss seeing MOST of my Steeler Game on Network TV yesterday.... so By God, it SHALL BE STOPPED. Hnick: You're fine, but giving her too much time. If you don't have to scrape her off your shoe, ignore her. Completely agree, the four of us in the committee have been dealing with this ever since july 17th. My mom's heart has been racing, my aunt Katie's blood pressure has been skyrocketing, and I've been taking more Xanax in a space of two months than I have taken in years. None of us need this stress. Thanks all, for your input! Brenda "I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"

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