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New Keep in mind the way press reporting works.
The saddest shit is that the secular culture they bitch about is actually driven by big companies who foment outrage to get attention and sell stuff. They don't realize it, but the people they elect to fight their battles are actually anti-people and pro-business which means the poor schmucks are actually voting FOR the commercial culture when they vote neocon even though the cons are running on a platform of xian values.

I've stopped caring about this stuff. If they get ID into the schools, you can bet those schools will only be for the poor people. The reasonably well off will send their kids to schools with better science programs. Its actually self service class warfare. Go figure.


I don't know, Todd.

My take is that big companies don't drive secular culture - they follow it. Big companies are incredibly conservative - in the sense that they don't change, they don't take risks, they keep doing what they were doing that seemed to work.

Pickup trucks sold pretty well this year? Next year we'll make even more pickup trucks! More powerful engines sold pretty well this year? We'll make even bigger engines!

Small MP3 players sold pretty well this year? Next year we'll sell smaller MP3 players!

Cell phones with color screens and cameras sold pretty well this year? Next year we'll sell cell phones with cameras and color screens and MP3 players!

Movies about the occult and promiscuous teens did pretty well this year? Next year we'll make movies about promiscuous teens and rappers and the occult and MP3 players!

Apple's music store is doing very well? We'll start a music store!

Grade school kids liked dressing up like gangsta rappers and TV stars this year. Next year we'll sell them spinners for their bicycle wheels, bling, and home botox kits!


And so forth. :-(

Big companies don't lead the culture, IMO. They are too slow in developing new products and services to do anything more than follow. Even Sony has fallen into a conservative rut.

The press doesn't report on the normal, run-of-the-mill events in the world, they report on the outliers, the extreme, the different. Since it's easy for stories in out-of-the-way places to be rebroadcast now, weird stories like this one get more attention than they probably deserve.

All that said, I do think that it's a disconcerting event that people in another school district are trying to push this ID crap again. I also think that there's too much crap on television that helps to reinforce the view held by many that the US is morally corrupt and losing its way and that "traditional values" need to be reinforced in the schools and in government.

I don't think that the Supreme Court will let this stand, if it reaches that far. Let's keep an eye on 'em, but don't overestimate their power. They're not close to winning this argument - yet.

As for the body politic waking up, well it would be nice. The trouble is, the opposition has to have a reasonably strong candidate. In too many cases, the incumbent is not effectively challenged. Until that happens, little will change.

:-(

Cheers,
Scott.
New No, I'm talking about Hollywood/Madison Ave
Every year the stuff on TV gets a little more crude, ads try to let people identify with subversives, etc.

I also think that there's too much crap on television that helps to reinforce the view held by many that the US is morally corrupt and losing its way and that "traditional values" need to be reinforced in the schools and in government.


Uh huh. Who puts the crap on the TV? Big corporations. Who puts the sex on the TV and why? Its the endless pushing of acceptability that has generated the right wing rebellion.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Sept. 24, 2005, 09:28:51 PM EDT
New Sorry, but you're being naiive
My take is that big companies don't drive secular culture - they follow it. Big companies are incredibly conservative - in the sense that they don't change, they don't take risks, they keep doing what they were doing that seemed to work.

[link|http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/etc/synopsis.html|Merchants of Cool]:
Of course, there is resistance to the commercial machine. FRONTLINE takes viewers to downtown Detroit, where media analyst Rushkoff speaks with teens at a concert by the Detroit-based Insane Clown Posse, purveyors of a genre of music that's become known as "rage rock." When asked to describe what appeals to them about such music, the teens invariably respond that it belongs to them; it hasn't yet been taken and sold back to them at the mall. Full of profanity, violence, and misogyny, rage rock is literally a challenge thrown up to marketers: just try to market this!

But marketers have accepted the challenge: rage rock is now big business. Not only has Insane Clown Posse become mainstream, but much bigger acts like Eminem and Limp Bizkit are breaking sales records and winning industry accolades in the form of Grammy nominations and other mainstream music awards.

In "The Merchants of Cool," correspondent Rushkoff details how MTV and other huge commercial outlets orchestrated the rise of Limp Bizkit--despite the group's objectionable lyrics--and then relentlessly promoted them on-air.

But in doing so, critics ask, is MTV truly reflecting the desires of today's teenagers, or are they stoking a cultural infatuation with music and imagery that glorifies violence and sex as well as antisocial behavior and attitudes?

In today's media-saturated environment, such questions, it seems, are becoming increasingly difficult to answer.

"It's one enclosed feedback loop," Rushkoff says. "Kids' culture and media culture are now one and the same, and it becomes impossible to tell which came first--the anger or the marketing of the anger."
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Yep, getting tougher for kids to be / behave
The Opposite of mom n'dad or, increasingly.. mom-or-dad (or in some classes - gramma or Uncle Joe).
Maybe they'll learn an idea of orthogonal or how to do a hypercube, that neat-o graphical hint of 4-D? Group name \ufffd '05 Me: The Tesseracts!

Rebellion.. gosh how er radical an idea.
I know: let's us use lots of loud guitars in our New Release - now, that would be Original.

Or as a friend remarked to a ~19 yo briefly staying at her house, railing about conformity or whatever, "y'know - You're wearing a uniform too," . . . {thud}
(Was, of course: goth-101.)


Homogenization proceeds apace, abetted by these computer network thingies - now a buildin and a cross-referencin Everyone and their blood-type, DVD purchase, fav Bondage site, calibre of one's Glocks - soon DNA. Biz-Efficiency: We Love it. It Loves us. Match made in one of those Heaven things?

Why, I gather that some of those color-glossy Ad presses, doin mailings in the Millions: require highly skilled techno folks to Keep the Good Times Flowing, like ketchup. (Shades of ol' Kistiakowsky, repeatedly blowin-up metal pipes, tryin to make implosion work. I think the Project succeeded (??) with the help of lots of technical Helpers then -- many of whom had no idea What it was they were Building. Too.)



Just watchin the rerun, izzall
Feedback loop: Indeed!

     Intelligent design faces first court challenge - (ben_tilly) - (17)
         Not cynical...just realistic. And in that vein... - (jb4) - (8)
             'See that and raise you - - (Ashton) - (7)
                 Alas, your argument is useless - (warmachine) - (6)
                     Au contraire - your examples are peas in a pod. - (Ashton) - (5)
                         And you're still wrong. Atheism is not a religion. - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                             according to the American Juidicial system it is :-) -NT - (boxley)
                             That was the LRPD-esque version, right? - (Ashton)
                         Not relevent - (warmachine) - (1)
                             My Son - (Ashton)
         "ID must be true! It's proven in court!" - (pwhysall)
         It doesn't matter either way - (tuberculosis) - (6)
             Keep in mind the way press reporting works. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                 No, I'm talking about Hollywood/Madison Ave - (tuberculosis)
                 Sorry, but you're being naiive - (drewk) - (1)
                     Yep, getting tougher for kids to be / behave - (Ashton)
             Not entirly calculated - (JayMehaffey)
             A small note of appreciation (new thread) - (Ashton)

Yikes! Took me a second there to get my poop back in a group...
46 ms