Post #222,595
9/3/05 12:30:06 PM
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New Orleans - The un-missing National Guard
I may have to do a whole section on the lies surrounding Katrina and the destruction of New Orleans. But for now, I'll just draw attention to [link|http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/9/1/125948/7993|what redstate.org has pieced together]
Excerpts:
As of August 31 there were 3,748 Louisiana Army National Guardsmen and Army Reservists and 193 Air Guardsmen and Reservists on active duty throughout the world. The lion's share of them, about 3,500, are with the 256th Infantry Brigade in Iraq. This leaves some 8,000 Guardsmen and an unknown number of Army Reservists available for disaster relief. The skill sets in those units, with the exception of the single combat engineer battalion, have no particular utility in disaster relief. So the argument that the absence of the 450 men of the 1088th Engineer Battalion were somehow critical to response to this disaster, or that the 3,500 troops missing could not be more than adequately replaced by other troops from neighboring states is just not true...
So did the equipment the 256th Infantry Brigade take with it to Iraq, equipment provide some unique immediate response capability that could have mitigated the damage from Katrina?
Arguably someone could make the case that the M1 Abrams tanks, M2 Bradley, and M109 Paladin howitzers belonging to the infantry, armor, and artillery battalions could have been filled with QUIKRETE and pushed into the break in the levee. Absent this scenario, it seems ridiculous on its face to object to the deployment of this equipment to Iraq.
The brigade?s engineer battalion, the 1088th Engineer Battalion, is in Iraq with its parent unit. It is a combat engineer battalion. Combat engineer battalions don't have a lot of heavy equipment. Each of the three lettered companies would have six M-9 Armored Combat Earthmovers (ACE). The ACE is much more useful for combat than disaster relief. The idea that 18 armored bulldozers would have been of critical assistance, unless they were dumped in the levee break on top of the tanks and personnel carriers in nothing short of ludicrous.
On the other hand, the unit left behind, the 225th Engineer Group, (Combat), and its four organic Engineer Battalions (Combat)(Heavy), is well suited for disaster relief...
And [link|http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins200509020719.asp|here's some more from James Robbins]
Excerpt:
The New York Times has called the military response 'a costly game of catch up.' Catching up compared to what, one wonders. National Guard units were mobilized immediately; 7,500 troops from four states were on the ground within 24 hours of Katrina - a commendable response given the disruptions to the transportation infrastructure. The DOD response is well ahead of the 1992 Hurricane Andrew timetable. Back then, the support request took nine days to crawl through the bureaucracy. The reaction this time was less than three days officially, and DOD had been pre-staging assets in anticipation of the aid request from the moment Katrina hit.
I say:
By the way, think there should have been more buses sooner? Me, too. Let's [link|http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015|take that up with the mayor of New Orleans].
Well, at least [link|http://www.newschannel5.tv/2005/9/1/4255/Taking-refuge-in-the-Astrodome|some people show some initiative].
Dare we hope that when they rebuild that city they'll do it right and use landfill? Not lilkely. This is a the Big Easy after all.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/#20050903|Angelfire link] (turn off Javascript to avoid popups)
Freenet: /SSK@jbf~W~x49RjZfyJwplqwurpNmg0PAgM/marlowe/#20050903
[link|http://fnmarlowe.blogspot.com/2005/09/new-orleans-un-missing-national-guard.html|Comment at blogger.com]
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If you don't like my posts, don't click on them.
Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/]
"The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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Post #222,620
9/3/05 2:44:56 PM
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Spin control central
I may have to do a whole section on the lies surrounding Katrina and the destruction of New Orleans Sure you aren't too busy spreading the word about how swimmingly well we're doing in Iraq, to be bothered with the War on Water? Really, I don't know what you expected the outcome to be. Having some 10k people at the Dome and Convention Center, and nary a hand in site, you'd be an idiot to assume that the "perception" of response was somehow adequate. After all, if you have no presence in the biggest core of refugees, it's not likely that people will believe that somehow they are taking care of individuals. An interview of the head of FEMA was telling. NPR had a reporter on spot at the Convention Center and was told of no food and water, and how people hadn't been told mixed messages about where they should go for help. FEMA official first alluded to how rumors get started, a stupid attempt to discredit the reports. Then he said he'd not get into an argument on the air, but that he wasn't aware of these people. At least he had the decency to admit the problem once he was off the air. Still, if the head of FEMA hasn't got a clue of what's happening in the thick of downtown NOLA 3 days after the event, who the fuck was in charge of getting a rapid response? Also, the officials should also be cognizant of the fact that a message of Law & Order was bound to backfire. Despite reports of looting and shooting by the rude boys, the message that we'll shoot looters on site is not going to play particularly well for those that are seeking help. Yes, there's a balance to be played in such messages, but you better damn well be careful in the force of your emphasis. By the way, think there should have been more buses sooner? Me, too. Let's take that up with the mayor of New Orleans. Best I can tell, the buses in the picture were inoperable due to the proximity having a fluid leak. But then I don't think this is the last word in what will become a concerted effort by the neocons to discredit the mayor of NO. Just be careful, as such an effort can blow up in your collective neocon ass just as much as Iraq and FEMA response are already nibbling away at the support that you take for granted.
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Post #222,623
9/3/05 2:57:11 PM
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Nagin
Doesn't need spin.
He is supposed to be in charge.
If there are people at Conv. Center and FEMA doesn't know..then the mayor and his org didn't effectively communicate this to FEMA.
THere were 300 people stranded at the Ritz. During intermittent phone service someone got a call to CNN. The helicopter was there within minutes and they were removed within several hours.
What I see is the local and state not having a clue...and so FEMA and the other fed groups arriving and having to figure this all out themselves.
Were they fast enough is an item for debate. But a leader on the ground would have been helpful. This is why I made the Rudy comment. Not because NO and NY situations are comparable. Simply because the drastic difference in leadership through crisis should be obvious.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #222,632
9/3/05 3:26:00 PM
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As in all response things it's C3
Who's in Command. Who's Controlling the situation. And how those things are Communicated. Any response, be it military or disaster relies on C3. No doubt that there was a total breakdown in all three areas.
When we are talking politics, perception is king. Cameras on site in downtown NO, meant that the rest of the country was going to perceive the disaster response in terms of what was happening there. Over three days into the tragedy, and there was no presence there of disaster relief. What'd they expect the perception to be of the adequacy of response?
And NYC is in no way comparable. Perhaps if every person in NYC who had a car and could drive was evacuated prior to the event. And perhaps if the entire island had been flooded and every bridge had become impassable, trapping the remainder in the city. And if perhaps the remainder of NY state had been beaten the shit out of by 100mph winds and all the surrounding communities had been left without a way to help. And perhaps if there were no means of Rudy communicating with the city at large. Then perhaps they'd be comparable situations.
Yes, there's a lack of leadership, both in the small groups on the ground. At the state and local level. And at the Federal level. Ineptitude abounds. But in my way of thinking, the harshness of conditions as one gets closer to the events in question, are a bit more understandable.
Assigning blame to local officials ain't gonna play out particularly well, as it has the appearance of blaming the victims. Perhaps the local officials have been negligent of their responsibilities. Or perhaps events simply overwhelmed any methodical attempt to gain control of the situation, not being able to see the forest for the trees.
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Post #222,639
9/3/05 4:19:58 PM
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Coast guard was flying
day 1. Thats a federal response. The helicopters have been doing S&R the entire time.
One thing you can say about the folks at the dome and at the CC. They may be dirty, hungry and generally pissed off...but they are ALIVE and will likely stay that way.
This means they are, unfortunately, NOT the immediate priority.
Its been handled poorly logistically. But the priority and immediate response was to find people and rescue them.
The dome and CC people were already found. I don't care what Geraldo says.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #222,642
9/3/05 4:40:59 PM
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Some agreement
But am not surprised that a visible group that had coverage by the media is going to have an inordinate influence on public perception, both inside and outside the city. Throw in the racial tension that has always been present in NO, and you have an situation that is not particularly optimal.
Anyhow, I'm not particularly one that thinks the jury on the situation is any where near ready for deliberation in terms of fault. I believe that actions are more important than words at this juncture. Those who want to spin these things in terms of blame (no matter which way), better be prepared to understand the force of their words.
Blaming planners for the last umpteen years ain't going to accomplish much - as the hindsight is that this type of scenario seems to have been ignored by lots of people. Blaming the oil business ain't gonna help as the consumers over the rest of the states were more than happy to consume that oil without consideration for trying to reduce consumption (same goes for global warming scenarios). Blaming local officials won't help much, since we are talking about one of the poorest regions in the country. Blaming (or even worse, shooting at) the rescuers don't help much.
I'll give credit to Bush for not sugar coating this thing - admitting that the response was not acceptable - without getting into a finger pointing contest. But for Marlowe's response to the crisis to be an attempt to do exactly what Bush has not been doing - assigning the blame to others - I have to say that I am not surprised about his lack of comprehension of the reality and perception of things going on in the Gulf Coast (just as he has no clue of what's actually happening in the other Gulf War).
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Post #222,773
9/4/05 5:13:59 PM
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The message that we'll shoot looters on site...
will not play well with drug addicts stealing TV sets. (Or that f***wit who suggested burning the city down. As if he could get a decent fire going with all that water.) But it will have the effect it needs to have.
And obviously those buses weren't too badly flooded when it mattered - that is, when the storm was on its way. As I've already linked, at least one got out... no thanks to Mayor Feckless.
Bummer they gave that guy a hassle at the Astrodome, though. There's something profoundly un-American about the bureaucratic mindset.
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If you don't like my posts, don't click on them.
Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/]
"The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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Post #222,774
9/4/05 5:18:09 PM
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Two audiences.
One audience is reassured about a shoot on sight policy. The other figures the color of their skin makes it open season on niggers.
(Harsh terms, but this is the deep south, and sometimes it's best not to sugar coat this stuff, when you want to see what the perceptions really are).
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Post #222,777
9/4/05 5:25:20 PM
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And that's why it's foolish to try to please everyone.
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If you don't like my posts, don't click on them.
Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/]
"The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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Post #222,779
9/4/05 5:35:35 PM
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So which side to appease?
Sure, we could ignore the poor and the black voices, as we often do. But don't be surprised when a Law and Order or a Shoot on Sight message is not seen by those same people as the number one "priority".
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Post #222,802
9/4/05 7:05:29 PM
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So how do you sort . . .
. . the drug addicts from people who hope to trade something for food, which they can't otherwise get when the government is on vacation? Or are you classifying food as an adictive drug punishable by death?
Days ago I suggested machine guns and Apaches, and nixed it in the same sentence because too many mistakes would be made. The mistakes would probably outnumber the justified hits, just as seems to be happening in Iraq.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #222,805
9/4/05 7:14:49 PM
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Hush, now.
Those are hard questions, and we don't do hard questions.
Hard questions are unpatriotic.
Peter
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Post #222,959
9/5/05 6:01:18 PM
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'Embarrassment' is an alien concept
in the average Neoconman's well-laundered jelloware (don't even bother to look for that other one, shame.)
Tar Baby.. Tar Baby.. Tar Baby.. Tar Baby..
(Repetition is said, occasionally to work for the dull-witted, though not during Rage-Boy seizures..
Oh well. Entertainment is where you find it.)
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Post #222,662
9/3/05 8:37:31 PM
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there was 7500 troops on the ground, where New Jersey?
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
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