"System Resources" aren't an issue with NT and up.

Post #220,849 by Another Scott 8/25/05 1:25:10 AM Reply	"System Resources" aren't an issue with NT and up. Back in olden times, when Windows 3.x was still a DOS shell, there were these bits of memory that Microsoft used to put graphics elements like buttons, menu items, etc., in. The [link\|http://www.apptools.com/rants/resources.php\|User and GDI] lumps of memory were each only 64 kB. Once they were filled up, Windows got cranky. Win9x expanded these memory areas some, but they were still limited. NT and up (2k and XP) don't have this limitation. Linux doesn't either, AFAIK. Yeah, there's generally no free lunch. Adding more cruft on top of the browser can make it more fragile and more sluggish. But I enjoy the functionality and it makes me more productive. While Win2k + SP4 still doesn't have the uptime that I used to get with OS/2, I usually get a month or so out of it before I need to reboot. It's pretty good. I don't use any shell extensions like [link\|http://www.stardock.com/products/odnt/\|Object Desktop] on Windows though. I'd imagine that things that hook too deeply into the shell will compromise the stability. (OD started out on OS/2, and there one could extend the shell pretty easily without too much of an issue with stability. The shell didn't run as meshed to the kernel as it does in 2K and up.) With 192 MB of RAM, you're probably right to stay with 98Lite. But maybe Santa will bring you a more modern machine one of these days. :-) Cheers, Scott. Cheers, Scott.
Post #220,850 by pwhysall 8/25/05 1:36:07 AM Reply	Shell Nit The Explorer shell isn't meshed to the kernel in 2K/XP. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #220,862 by Another Scott 8/25/05 7:44:24 AM Reply	Perhaps the wrong term. 1) It's very difficult to run later versions of Windows without the Explorer GUI shell. In OS/2, one could run any (OS/2) shell one liked. 2) In NT4 and up, the graphics drivers run in [link\|http://www.cmkrnl.com/faq01.html\|Ring 0] - the most privilidged mode of the Intel processor. In the same mode as the the NT kernel. OS/2 and Linux graphics drivers live in Ring 3 - "user mode". User mode processes have more limitiations on what they can do to memory and the like, to try to protect the system from wayward code. My understanding is that, taking 1 and 2 as given, that means that bugs in Explorer can bring down Windows. It's not much of a problem in practice, but I think it's one of the reasons why there are relatively fewer shell extensions for Windows than there were for the Workplace Shell on OS/2. That's what I meant by "The [OS/2] shell didn't run as meshed to the kernel as it does in 2K and up." I'll accept that that may not be accurate, but I hope it's clearer what I was getting at. Cheers, Scott.
Post #220,863 by pwhysall 8/25/05 7:51:04 AM 8/25/05 7:54:49 AM Reply	You're still off track. The EXPLORER.EXE process is a user-space process and as such, it cannot crash Windows. On an XP box with Fast User Switching enabled, each user has their own EXPLORER.EXE process. It can be replaced by SHELL=LITESTEP.EXE (for example). Very few people do, because the available shell replacements are all a bit sucky. Explorer may suck (and how!) but it is at least reasonably stable and feature-complete. I'm not sure about your assertion that there are fewer shell extensions for Explorer than there were for WPS, when every damn application seems to extend Explorer in its own way (not that I mind TortoiseSVN's intervention, for example). While you're completely correct that the graphics driver on Windows runs in ring 0 for performance reasons, the interface to it (i.e. GDI, DirectX or OpenGL) is user-space; crashes result from buggy drivers, not user-space code. I do think there's some kind of daffy kernel-mode thing that means only a single instance of, say, the OGL ICD can be running at once. So my nit stands. Also, I'd like to take the opportunity to excoriate Creative Labs for producing a sound driver for their Audigy 2 card that can BSOD windows when I plug my headphones in (thus switching output from the 5.1 system to the front headphone jack socket). Well done, chaps! It's little discussions like this that remind me what a giant pain in the arse Windows is. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! Edited by pwhysall Aug. 25, 2005, 07:54:49 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #220,857 by Ashton 8/25/05 2:54:01 AM Reply	Ah.. clearer. Thanks - that fits my 'qualitative' model. I did suffer through some post-9x homework. In the course of dissections re the horrific Dell from Hell - I once installed W2K on my P3-600 box (just dropped in a temp HD) and started looking at the running tasks, etc. Turned-off a few, then on - Googled a tad re whazzup-with-This one? Peeked at it all with a few of the bitchin Rixtools and similar. Saw enough new non-9x-ish activities to require entirely new brain-mapping, I concluded. And I'd need 512M min, just for reduced-duty like mine. Oh and, I muddled through a book (Thanks, Peter) re the 2K Server version; noted enough about AD to see the word toxic in one-inch high magenta letters... and see that the Beast was (still) intent upon maintaining complex non-conformity with All others. (I'd have much sooner spent that trivia-relearning energy on a nix distro, if I Had to change OSs just then) Finally - noted the training-wheels %time of a friend's 'upgrade' to 2K (still going on, actually..) That did/has clinched it por moi. Dead Parrot, that - as I have the luxury of not needing such ever-changing lore, as I would, within some biz enviro. Deader-than-dead, when I throw in SP-2+ and daily trips to Home for new band-aids; the need to have all that on CD, if possible, especially on dial-up. Yada. My regards to Santa -- should She hand me a fancy 3 GHz box sometime, I'll try to parlay it into nominal OSX hardware territory asap. I just don't see any futchah for this entire line of compounded-kluges, and have only sympathy for those who must use it / keep cleaning up after it. I believe that Billy's epitaph shall have at leat one line in it, referring to the Edsel*. (You don't have to unravel all parts of a kluge to discern Klugeness: Brown's First Law). Thanks for filling-in the details, moi, who drops by Apple.com periodically to see the Toys; notes that eBay prices for these are excessive.. and also P-P-Powerbook Watch-Out! reminiscent, re many of the later items.
Post #220,858 by pwhysall 8/25/05 5:25:25 AM Reply	W2K runs fine in > 128MB It's XP that suffers in less than 256. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!

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