Are you sure there's not a Jesuit ancestor in your past? :)

Post #21,672 by a6l6e6x 12/16/01 9:42:42 PM Reply	Are you sure there's not a Jesuit ancestor in your past? :) Convert or die were the options given to Indians in the New World. Alex Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Post #21,678 by Andrew Grygus 12/16/01 11:06:06 PM Reply	Nah . . that's a bit tame for . . . . . my mongrel ancestry (Teuton, Mongol & Slav). Alcohol, magic mushrooms, blood, iron, and the shaman's drum! We would'a got along fine. What church official was it who said, "I don't know whether or not the Jesuits are Christians, but I do know they are not Catholics"? [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #21,679 by dmarker2 12/16/01 11:09:29 PM Reply	Re: Speaking of Indians (original variety from India) The Portugese christians in the 1500/1600s had a way of dealing with other religions that was classic Christianity of the day ... Off Bombay (Mumbai) there is an Island called Elephant Island. A Portugese military man was hunting there one day & shot at a boar but missed. He heard a strange echo from his shot & went into the shrubs to investigate. He discovered a cave mouth & on entering found an entire temple carved from the volcanic rock & full of inticately carved classic Hindu images (multi-armed gods & elephant headed gods). The Christian approach (unlike the Muslims in Turkey re the Haj Sophia), took large hammers & smashed as many and as much as they could. They could have covered the cave up or kept it as a curiosity. Today it is a tourist site but really serves to testify to the bloody minded arrogance of our Christian forebears & their attitude to 'Heathen' images. The Taliban of their day. Cheers Doug Marker
Post #21,681 by Andrew Grygus 12/16/01 11:30:38 PM Reply	Indians vs. Indians There is so much confusion about Columbus and his voyages. From what I have read, Columbus, who was looking for China, and knew China was not what he found, called the inhabitants "En Dio" [sp] meaning the word of Christ had not been brought to them, so they were still innocents "in God". School teachers mistranslated this as "Indians". Also, from what I have read, the scholars of the Spanish court damned well knew the world was round, but Columbus was using an ancient Greek measurement showing it was much smaller than what the scholars knew it was. They very reasonably recommended that ships hadn't the range to get to China going West. Only hitting an unexpected continent saved Columbus and his crew. Also, from what I have read, Columbus' own writings (preserved in the (completely disorganized and largely restricted (due to the amount of dirt on important royal figures (and more recent figures) contained therein)) Spanish Archives) describe his travel to Norway to talk to a Pere (somthingorother) about what was on the other side of the Atlantic (since Pere had been there on routine lumber expeditions), and realized this couldn't be China, so tried farther south. What everyone (except American mythology) seems to agree on is that Columbus was the perfect asshole, cruel, scheming and self centered. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #21,790 by mhuber 12/17/01 11:44:53 PM Reply	Columbus' character He was, by all accounts, as you say, the perfect asshole, cruel, scheming and self centered. Even by the standards of the day. If I recall correctly, Pope Alexander VI, Borgia (father - and probably more - to Cesare and Lucrezia) was Pope. There was a phenomenon in Rome called the Borgia Flu - pretty much any death where the cause wasn't real, real obvious, was blamed on that trio. People who assasinated each other and slaughtered each other's peasants and financed the Spanish Inquisition and turned each other over to it anytime it was profitable to do so considered him a cruel, scheming, self centered asshole. When he was dragged back from the New World in chains, it was because he managed to turn the stomachs of people who considered the Spanish Inquisition as kindly helping sinners reform, and were not at all ignorant of the methods. ---- "You don't have to be right - just use bolded upper case" - annon.
Post #21,687 by Ashton 12/17/01 1:25:07 AM Reply	The Hindu Trinity Brahma - the creator Vishnu - the preserver S(h)iva - the destroyer (gotta dispense with the old before.. you create another universe; Brahma just opens his 'eye'.. and it appears.) I guess that, whether F=MA applies - is a matter of caprice (?) The elephant-headed deity, Ganesha seems to be an innovative, lovable and playful sort, and a chosen icon for many. (Of course too, unlike Western stuff - all realize that these are merely symbols, a catalyst for meditation and spiritual growth. They don't expect to find their bones or chat with them, and such.) In that spirit, no doubt Ganesha would have viwed the desecrations ~ as what fools these mortals be!; wouldn't have appealed to some 'father' to forgive them yada yada. Perhaps the Copts would have had a more Western fearful approach? they're pretty good at evoking homo sap terror of things that go bump in the night. See The Mummy's Curse, for instructions re scaring the bejeesus outta the literal-minded everywhere.. Ashton Metaphysical Constructs Ltd. Tell us which fantasy is unpopular now. We'll write a new one (in XVHTML) to spec. Opt. stone / papyrus. (Prices vary with obduracy of the subjects, time & materials.)

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