The amount of bureaucracy created...

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Post #215,456 by ben_tilly 7/18/05 5:20:02 PM Reply	The amount of bureaucracy created... would have guaranteed mass confusion, no savings, and tons of room for corporate lobbyists to ask Congress to manipulate rules ad nauseum. I understand the desire to legislate a perfect solution. But when it comes to big government mandates, KISS. Her plan would have left us saddled with universal HMOs and crushing bureaucracy. In the maze of regulations there would be plenty of room to point fingers for why it failed. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #215,463 by jb4 7/18/05 6:01:12 PM Reply	So in your mind bureaucracy == failure? Interesting, and there is probably some merit to that viewpoint. Of course, I could scrounge around and find some bureaucracies that were a resounding success. Yet what do we have now? "Guaranteed mass confusion, no savings, and tons of room for corporate lobbyists to ask Congress to manipulate rules ad nauseum." Yes, indeed.... So in absence of the "perfect solution", we have no solution. Dunno about you, Ben, but that doesn't sound like a ringing endorsemnent for the status quo, now does it? Hell, you're an IT guy...don't you believe in a solution that is "good enough" to solve a problem, or are you an ivory towerist that insists on all or nothing? (I think I already know the answer...it's a rhetorical question.) jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #215,477 by ben_tilly 7/18/05 8:27:32 PM Reply	No But in my mind, excessive bureaucracy is a red flag for potential failure conditions. Hillary's plan waved this flag way too boldly for my tastes. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Just for the record. - (imqwerky) - (134) - July 18, 2005, 12:18:43 PM EDT

and she would make the trains run on time, yeah right - (boxley) - (15) - July 18, 2005, 12:39:06 PM EDT

Man, you gotta stop listening to Faux News. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - July 18, 2005, 12:46:23 PM EDT

who used Anthony Pelicano as their personal punch? -NT - (boxley) - July 18, 2005, 01:04:53 PM EDT

Oh Puhhhhhleeeezzzzzzz - (imqwerky) - (12) - July 18, 2005, 01:07:09 PM EDT

point by point - (boxley) - (11) - July 18, 2005, 01:37:05 PM EDT

/me raises hand - (jb4) - (3) - July 18, 2005, 01:50:25 PM EDT

brunei, specifically ending a contract for mining in utah - (boxley) - (2) - July 18, 2005, 01:58:39 PM EDT

Would that Alabama governor happen to be named Wallace? -NT - (jb4) - (1) - July 18, 2005, 02:25:16 PM EDT

/me makes whistling sound while gazing elsewhere -NT - (boxley) - July 18, 2005, 02:55:45 PM EDT

Hardly any points. Why can't you STOP believing that drivel? - (CRConrad) - (4) - July 18, 2005, 03:06:25 PM EDT

gee, is Rupert your dad? must be, you look like him - (boxley) - (3) - July 18, 2005, 03:33:03 PM EDT

It matters if it is my Dad you're fellating,or someone else? - (CRConrad) - (2) - July 18, 2005, 04:39:51 PM EDT

:-) yer slipping, does juanita broderick ring a bell? -NT - (boxley) - (1) - July 18, 2005, 05:48:38 PM EDT

Nope. Well, maybe, but none of mine anyway. -NT - (CRConrad) - July 18, 2005, 05:55:11 PM EDT

Rebuttal - (imqwerky) - (1) - July 18, 2005, 04:43:21 PM EDT

Correction for you - (ben_tilly) - July 18, 2005, 04:49:40 PM EDT

I don't care about Hillary's gender - (ben_tilly) - (75) - July 18, 2005, 03:13:51 PM EDT

ROFL. - (mmoffitt) - (70) - July 18, 2005, 03:19:42 PM EDT

No, because it was beaurocratic crap. - (ben_tilly) - (69) - July 18, 2005, 03:23:17 PM EDT

Why you can't leave it to the states. - (mmoffitt) - (65) - July 18, 2005, 03:35:28 PM EDT

Swell. - (imric) - (53) - July 18, 2005, 03:40:13 PM EDT

Fuck you. - (mmoffitt) - (51) - July 18, 2005, 03:47:44 PM EDT

You could say that about any profession - (drewk) - (6) - July 18, 2005, 04:01:34 PM EDT

Fairly? - (pwhysall) - (3) - July 18, 2005, 04:03:47 PM EDT

Those going into soldiering often don't have better options - (drewk) - (2) - July 18, 2005, 04:28:06 PM EDT

What about the officers? - (pwhysall) - (1) - July 18, 2005, 04:29:21 PM EDT

They get paid quite a bit better - (drewk) - July 18, 2005, 04:44:47 PM EDT

Not necessarily - (imqwerky) - (1) - July 18, 2005, 05:01:51 PM EDT

Priorities - (drewk) - July 18, 2005, 09:16:59 PM EDT

And who the hell is gonna pay for the education? - (imric) - (34) - July 18, 2005, 04:11:09 PM EDT

next time mikey gets sick, send him to the va - (boxley) - (1) - July 18, 2005, 04:17:37 PM EDT

Yet another example of "supporting our troops" - (ben_tilly) - July 18, 2005, 04:25:14 PM EDT

Ping-pong policy-making...? -NT - (admin) - (1) - July 18, 2005, 04:19:09 PM EDT

You said it! -NT - (imric) - July 18, 2005, 04:19:52 PM EDT

We manage alright over here... - (pwhysall) - (29) - July 18, 2005, 04:25:45 PM EDT

Litigious fucks. - (imric) - (12) - July 18, 2005, 04:32:34 PM EDT

If your hypothetical MD does as you say, - (mmoffitt) - (11) - July 18, 2005, 05:02:09 PM EDT

So you're against the Physician's union? - (imric) - (10) - July 18, 2005, 05:14:48 PM EDT

Huh? - (mmoffitt) - (9) - July 19, 2005, 01:20:38 PM EDT

Yeah. Right. - (imric) - (8) - July 19, 2005, 02:34:43 PM EDT

You can't even fucking read, can you skippy? - (mmoffitt) - (7) - July 19, 2005, 04:36:18 PM EDT

Ok, cretin. - (imric) - (6) - July 19, 2005, 04:57:17 PM EDT

Again, you mislead. - (mmoffitt) - (5) - July 19, 2005, 05:04:56 PM EDT

_I_ mislead? - (imric) - (4) - July 19, 2005, 05:35:36 PM EDT

Free clue, knucklefuckers. - (pwhysall) - (3) - July 19, 2005, 05:54:22 PM EDT

But I'm having too much fun HERE! -NT - (imric) - (2) - July 19, 2005, 05:57:59 PM EDT

Crap. I c. My bad. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - July 19, 2005, 06:02:39 PM EDT

OK - (imric) - July 19, 2005, 06:35:44 PM EDT

Amen, with caveat. - (mmoffitt) - (15) - July 18, 2005, 04:59:53 PM EDT

The escalation of premiums is tied to the stock market - (ben_tilly) - (14) - July 18, 2005, 05:34:22 PM EDT

I know about Reserve requirements, but, - (mmoffitt) - (5) - July 19, 2005, 01:25:17 PM EDT

You may want to look into this further - (bepatient) - (4) - July 19, 2005, 05:39:57 PM EDT

Excellent point. - (mmoffitt) - (3) - July 19, 2005, 06:07:48 PM EDT

80 % of deaths occur in hospitals - let's tear 'em all down! - (CRConrad) - (2) - July 20, 2005, 03:19:42 AM EDT

No, they're talking about terminal cases - (drewk) - (1) - July 20, 2005, 12:05:34 PM EDT

A) Schiavo. B) Yeah, I know. C) Yup, as Fernet-Branca grappa - (CRConrad) - July 20, 2005, 03:40:30 PM EDT

A Flash of Brilliance! - (imqwerky) - (7) - July 19, 2005, 04:09:22 PM EDT

Aside: Know what the difference between God and an MD is? - (mmoffitt) - (2) - July 19, 2005, 04:37:25 PM EDT

Good one! -NT - (imqwerky) - July 19, 2005, 06:00:17 PM EDT

Wanna fix that habit they have? - (Ashton) - July 20, 2005, 11:35:13 PM EDT

Socialized insurance is what Canada has :-) -NT - (ben_tilly) - (3) - July 19, 2005, 04:43:46 PM EDT

Study this more I will, yessssssssss. - (imqwerky) - (2) - July 19, 2005, 06:07:13 PM EDT

Isn't there a bit of Gollum in there too, yessssssssss? :-) -NT - (CRConrad) - (1) - July 20, 2005, 02:59:10 AM EDT

Wellll, it should have been more of a yeeeeeeeees. - (imqwerky) - July 20, 2005, 03:24:32 PM EDT

"Patient, what would you like me to prescribe?" - (Arkadiy) - (8) - July 21, 2005, 09:45:40 PM EDT

Only the best for me ;-) signed The patient Patient -NT - (bepatient) - July 22, 2005, 12:32:40 AM EDT

And you think none of that happens when you pay them? - (mmoffitt) - (6) - July 22, 2005, 11:36:43 AM EDT

And another - (inthane-chan) - (2) - July 22, 2005, 11:48:25 AM EDT

Agreed. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - July 22, 2005, 11:55:52 AM EDT

Inconsistent with Puritannical roots.___(really!) Sorry. - (Ashton) - July 22, 2005, 05:41:22 PM EDT

The above crap happened to 4 people - (Arkadiy) - (2) - Aug. 3, 2005, 08:10:51 AM EDT

Ah, but isn't getting more if you pay more your ideal? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Aug. 3, 2005, 09:45:19 AM EDT

Yes, when it's properly labeled as such -NT - (Arkadiy) - Aug. 3, 2005, 03:08:18 PM EDT

Soldiers get paid a lot less. - (pwhysall) - July 18, 2005, 03:52:18 PM EDT

People made that argument when Canada did it - (ben_tilly) - (10) - July 18, 2005, 04:31:31 PM EDT

Er, I don't think you're an idiot. - (mmoffitt) - (9) - July 18, 2005, 05:04:28 PM EDT

I think I've pointed this out before - (ben_tilly) - (8) - July 18, 2005, 05:32:32 PM EDT

You misinterpretted my Kaiser question. - (mmoffitt) - (7) - July 19, 2005, 01:23:34 PM EDT

As far as I can see I understood your point perfectly - (ben_tilly) - (6) - July 19, 2005, 04:50:29 PM EDT

Where did I suggest Canada was like Kaiser? - (mmoffitt) - (5) - July 19, 2005, 05:06:49 PM EDT

Try here... - (ben_tilly) - (4) - July 19, 2005, 07:46:41 PM EDT

I didn't read it that way. - (Another Scott) - July 19, 2005, 08:01:20 PM EDT

I think he was *contrasting* Kaiser to (his image of) Canada -NT - (CRConrad) - (2) - July 20, 2005, 03:25:12 AM EDT

It sure doesn't look like that to me - (ben_tilly) - (1) - July 20, 2005, 10:29:46 AM EDT

Your hypothesis has the weakness... - (CRConrad) - July 20, 2005, 10:48:55 AM EDT

Isn't Canada's health system having problems now? - (Another Scott) - (2) - July 18, 2005, 03:41:16 PM EDT

flame forum asshole take this to politics :-) -NT - (boxley) - July 18, 2005, 03:58:59 PM EDT

Part of a long-term unsustainable trend - (ben_tilly) - July 18, 2005, 04:21:09 PM EDT

I don't know how much of a disaster it would have been - (jb4) - (3) - July 18, 2005, 04:54:36 PM EDT

The amount of bureaucracy created... - (ben_tilly) - (2) - July 18, 2005, 05:20:02 PM EDT

So in your mind bureaucracy == failure? - (jb4) - (1) - July 18, 2005, 06:01:12 PM EDT

No - (ben_tilly) - July 18, 2005, 08:27:32 PM EDT

She's a fucking fraud, only out for #1! - (a6l6e6x) - (1) - July 18, 2005, 09:22:21 PM EDT

ICLRPD (new thread) - (Steve Lowe) - July 19, 2005, 12:48:42 AM EDT

On not supporting HRC for president - (rcareaga) - (7) - July 18, 2005, 09:43:40 PM EDT

ICLRPD (new thread) - (broomberg) - July 18, 2005, 10:25:43 PM EDT

Precisam\ufffdnte boyo.. - (Ashton) - July 19, 2005, 01:10:22 AM EDT

If she is so good why is every republican in the nation - (boxley) - (4) - July 19, 2005, 09:58:23 AM EDT

sure you do--you call the treat "WorldNetDaily" -NT - (rcareaga) - (3) - July 19, 2005, 10:30:23 AM EDT

I know that sometimes there is nuggets under those rocks - (boxley) - (2) - July 19, 2005, 10:56:35 AM EDT

Wooooo - (drewk) - (1) - July 19, 2005, 11:15:47 AM EDT

(it was ghost-written...) -NT - (jb4) - July 19, 2005, 03:06:04 PM EDT

Troll Successful! - (imqwerky) - (7) - July 19, 2005, 01:12:52 AM EDT

That's one way to try to end a thread... -NT - (ben_tilly) - (6) - July 19, 2005, 01:27:48 AM EDT

"Try"being the operative word. Doesn't usually work, though. - (CRConrad) - (4) - July 19, 2005, 02:30:01 AM EDT

Critter made me do it :-D - (imqwerky) - (2) - July 19, 2005, 02:40:29 AM EDT

(Never mind this one; duplicate) -NT - (CRConrad) - July 19, 2005, 02:56:13 AM EDT

Uh, Amy, couldja do us a favour, please? (new thread) - (CRConrad) - July 19, 2005, 02:55:13 AM EDT

Clue to planet Christian... - (ben_tilly) - July 19, 2005, 12:30:09 PM EDT

ObLRPD: "tilly wonders what the upper limit ... " - (drewk) - July 19, 2005, 10:55:45 AM EDT

In The Inquirer fortune today. More on HRK. - (Another Scott) - (4) - July 19, 2005, 10:43:32 AM EDT

she is neither evil nor a leftist - (boxley) - (3) - July 19, 2005, 11:31:27 AM EDT

How do you explain that Moynahan suppored her? - (Another Scott) - (1) - July 19, 2005, 11:51:54 AM EDT

how many times was the word vindictive used? smoke/fire -NT - (boxley) - July 19, 2005, 11:57:43 AM EDT

Jesus H. - (mmoffitt) - July 19, 2005, 01:32:51 PM EDT

Howabout we get someone new? - (tuberculosis) - (18) - July 19, 2005, 05:59:02 PM EDT

That's how we get idiots in the White House - (ChrisR) - (8) - July 19, 2005, 06:17:51 PM EDT

As opposed to the solid performance of the former governors? - (tuberculosis) - (7) - July 19, 2005, 07:39:19 PM EDT

Jesse Ventura, Bob Hickel -NT - (boxley) - July 19, 2005, 09:16:52 PM EDT

former governors - (rcareaga) - (1) - July 19, 2005, 10:14:05 PM EDT

I stand corrected -NT - (tuberculosis) - July 20, 2005, 12:48:44 AM EDT

Clinton, governor of Alabama? I thought it was Arkansas... - (CRConrad) - (3) - July 20, 2005, 03:23:41 AM EDT

Ahem, AK is alaska AR Arkansas AZ arizona -NT - (boxley) - (1) - July 20, 2005, 03:43:15 AM EDT

Ah, I see. Well, if there's ever anything *else*... -NT - (CRConrad) - July 20, 2005, 09:55:21 AM EDT

One of those southern A-a states -NT - (tuberculosis) - July 20, 2005, 11:40:53 AM EDT

I think you aren't far off - (Ashton) - (8) - July 20, 2005, 03:40:39 AM EDT

Depressingly True, But there is hope. - (imqwerky) - (7) - July 20, 2005, 02:47:30 PM EDT

Don't kids usually try to be the opposite of their parents? -NT - (drewk) - (6) - July 20, 2005, 01:17:37 PM EDT

Point Taken - (imqwerky) - (3) - July 20, 2005, 03:21:47 PM EDT

/me sniggers - (inthane-chan) - (2) - July 20, 2005, 04:30:41 PM EDT

He's already rebelled. - (imqwerky) - (1) - July 20, 2005, 04:47:18 PM EDT

He's in the minority then - (ben_tilly) - July 20, 2005, 04:50:27 PM EDT

Usually failing in the end -NT - (tuberculosis) - July 20, 2005, 03:28:34 PM EDT

Same or opposite, little in between - (ben_tilly) - July 20, 2005, 04:35:30 PM EDT

Such twisted irony.
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