Amen, with caveat.

Post #215,446 by mmoffitt 7/18/05 4:59:53 PM Reply	Amen, with caveat. The insurance industry in this country is an outright scam. It is a scam that helps feed the clinicians the excessive salaries they demand. The truth is that the amounts paid out in malpractice claims have remained almost constant, yet the premiums have escalated fairly dramatically in some states - but not all. The reason you hear all this gnashing of teeth concerning malpractice and tort lawyers is that clinicians here absolutely hate to give up anything. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #215,458 by ben_tilly 7/18/05 5:34:22 PM Reply	The escalation of premiums is tied to the stock market By law insurance companies have to keep specified cash reserves. They keep a lot of that as stock. If the stock market does well the extra income lets them charge smaller premiums. If it does poorly, well... Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #215,610 by mmoffitt 7/19/05 1:25:17 PM Reply	I know about Reserve requirements, but, and investments by insurance companies. But that is clearly not the only thing driving up premiums. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #215,658 by bepatient 7/19/05 5:39:57 PM Reply	You may want to look into this further Because the empirical data actually does corrolate quite nicely to market returns. Had to do that homework because of the current noise in PA. Argument was for tort reform. However, litigation was down and awards were down in a period where premiums were going through the roof. What changed? The stock market. Sure there may be other factors. But they are minor in comparison. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #215,666 by mmoffitt 7/19/05 6:07:48 PM Reply	Excellent point. The real driver for higher premiums is insurance company profit. Which, as you and Ben rightly point out, is tied to market returns. It's been a while since I worked for an HMO (2000), but back then - and I realize this is a state issue - we had to have 6 weeks of claims in reserve. For all my ranting, I realize that physician salaries, while excessive, are not going to solve the problem. Ultimately, I think my old CFO put his finger on it when he said, "The real problem with healthcare is that we spend 80% of the money we spend on healthcare in our last two months of life. If people could just accept that dying is a consequence of being born, we could save a ton of money." bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #215,724 by CRConrad 7/20/05 3:19:42 AM Reply	80 % of deaths occur in hospitals - let's tear 'em all down! Mike Moffs it: Ultimately, I think my old CFO put his finger on it when he said, "The real problem with healthcare is that we spend 80% of the money we spend on healthcare in our last two months of life. If people could just accept that dying is a consequence of being born, we could save a ton of money." I think I see what you (and he) mean... But I'm not quite sure that that is what you (and he) are saying, exactly. I mean, the money we spend on healthcare gets spent when we are ill -- when the heck else would you spend it? And when we are ill is also, logically and inevitably, when we are liable to die -- so all too often it turns out that the period we spent spending money on healthcare also was our last. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try at all to treat illnesses that are in principle treatable, now does it? Yes, yes, I know you were really talking about ultimately futile efforts to prolong the very last days of a life that is actually already all but over -- but the way you (or your old CFO) put it, it sounds a bit like the fallacy in my "Subject:" line. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #215,753 by drewk 7/20/05 12:05:34 PM Reply	No, they're talking about terminal cases Remember Terry what's-er-name? That's the people we're talking about. Doctors aren't allowed to ask the question, "But if we keep the heart beating, is that really 'alive'?" I've heard people demand heroic measures, "just to have one more day with him." If even in your most optimistic projections you can't see more than a couple of days or weeks, how about making them comfortable? Nope, gotta prolong that life. Fight to the bitter end. And it will be bitter. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #215,785 by CRConrad 7/20/05 3:40:30 PM Reply	A) Schiavo. B) Yeah, I know. C) Yup, as Fernet-Branca grappa D) But still, the way he put it made it sound like it would also include cases a la "Dang, it was this close that it would all just have been a bad memeory for him to tell his grandkids forty years from now". The ones where it becomes clear only afterwards that the period when one spent all that dough turned out to be ones last. (For those cases, "most of what we spend is at the end!" is a fallacy pretty much like my "shut down the hospitals!" joke[let].) Sure, I know that wasn't what he meant to talk about... But his ex-CFO happened to do so. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #215,642 by imqwerky 7/19/05 4:09:22 PM Reply	A Flash of Brilliance! I know! We don't need to socialized medical care....we need socialized insurance!!! Those are the whores! Those are the bastards who are jacking up health care costs. HMO's are not the answer. They suck. I have worked too long building a relationship with my healthcare providers to have some dickhead behind a desk who couldn't give a shit about me or my family tell me that I have to switch providers. I should be able to see who I want, when I want. I am an educated person. Yes, I know, not the norm, but, damn it, let's do what is right and have free healthcare for children up until the age of 18. Healthy kids = healthy adults! Teach 'em while they are young to be active participants in their own destiny. Knowledge is power and by God, Doctors aren't God. It is a partnership and an exchange of information. Teach people to take ownership and responsibility for their lives. Wow! What a concept! Think of the Domino Effect! Let me put my money in an HSA and let the govmint match my contribs...all tax free. By phasing in such a plan, and growing healthier Citizens of the USA, over a period of 10 years or so (?) the plan should begin to pay for itself (from less crack babies, less birth defects, less drain on society in the future,etc, etc.) Ok, so I may not know the timeline exactly, but you get the drift. Feels good to finally get this out somewhere. Have been keeping this bottled up for too damn long. Have at it, boys. Peace, Amy "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Heilige Sheisse, what a ride!'" .
Post #215,647 by mmoffitt 7/19/05 4:37:25 PM Reply	Aside: Know what the difference between God and an MD is? God doesn't think he's an MD. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #215,663 by imqwerky 7/19/05 6:00:17 PM Reply	Good one! "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Heilige Sheisse, what a ride!'" .
Post #215,848 by Ashton 7/20/05 11:35:13 PM Reply	Wanna fix that habit they have? Get up off your knees (and bring along a Nurse who ever Ever! utters.. "Doctor says that ___" - omitting the The in front, or a name behind) HtH
Post #215,648 by ben_tilly 7/19/05 4:43:46 PM Reply	Socialized insurance is what Canada has :-) I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #215,665 by imqwerky 7/19/05 6:07:13 PM Reply	Study this more I will, yessssssssss. If Canada can do it, WE can do it better. (Hitchin' up our collective britches and hockin' a loogie at ye olde spittoone) :-P Peace, Pardner! Amy (Yes, I know, I mixed my references, Yoda/Wild, Wild, West...but, hey, it was funny! Can't you see the little guy in chaps and spurs and a little ten gallon hat with his pointy green ears sticking out? LOL!!! Fastest lightsabre in the West!) a. "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Heilige Sheisse, what a ride!'" .
Post #215,723 by CRConrad 7/20/05 2:59:10 AM Reply	Isn't there a bit of Gollum in there too, yessssssssss? :-)
Post #215,782 by imqwerky 7/20/05 3:24:32 PM Reply	Wellll, it should have been more of a yeeeeeeeees. intonation up, then down. (winky winky, smile) Peace, Amy "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Merde Sante, what a ride!'" .

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