Re: Don't confuse the facts.

Post #21,383 by TTC 12/13/01 5:19:53 PM Reply	Re: Don't confuse the facts. How do you define terrorists and terrorism? Just wondering, have you ever try to view it from the perspective of the innocent Afghanis that got their families/relatives/friends kill in the process? Do they not view the pilots and the tactics employed as terrorists and terrorism? It is NOT confusing if you choose not to view the other parties' POV(s). It's always very clear cut when only a POV is being considered.
Post #21,394 by Ashton 12/13/01 6:04:02 PM Reply	That's a comparable Q to one posed on NPR radio recently, ~~ If it is 'justified' that the US maintains nuclear weapons, how is it then impermissible for other less-wealthy countries to possess chemical and biological weapons of defense? [or at least parity, one might reword - 'offense/defense' are an inseparable unity.] BTW - the resident Expert replied, .. .. that's an excellent question. I can't recall that he 'answered' it.. Ditto of course re any country with nukes VS any without, however aspiring. (Naturally, life being unfair - we may leave that word out of any tortured equation involving homo-saps and their efforts to deal with each other's God-fantasies, and stay rich too.) A.
Post #21,448 by boxley 12/14/01 12:15:28 AM Reply	anyway we want to how do you define it :) tshirt front "born to die before I get old" thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
Post #21,510 by screamer 12/14/01 1:52:07 PM Reply	In my best Jeff Foxworthy voice... If you strap a bomb to yourself and walk into a crowded bus station... you may be a terrorist. If you fly a commercial jet into a building killing thousands of civilians... you may be a terrorist. If you ram a boat filled with explosives into another boat... you may be a terrorist. If you drive a truck filled with explosives into an embassy... you may be a terrorist. In other words, I find your first question laughable.The folks we are going after in Afghanistan are definately terrorists or members of terrorists "enablers". I really hope that is not what you meant by your questioning. If you don't understand that these folks are terrorists (by any definition) then, I'm affraid I can't help you. Oh, and by the way, we at least were civil enough to declare two to four weeks prior to that we would be dropping bombs as a sort of heads up to their civilians. The Al Quada didn't show us the same courtesy with the Trade Center or the Pentagon... If you mean is a relativistic way, how do I differentiate the suffering of the Afghan civilians with the people of New York? I don't. The suffering is just as great. How can I then justify feeling that this is a just cause with the people suffering in Afghanistan? Tough question, but one I can answer. Their suffering was great before we came in there. These people (the Taliban and terrorists) would have done something sooner or later to a "less pacifistic" culture that may have not have used "smart" weapons that actually do minimize civilian casualties. In the greater scheme of things, I truly believe that we (as the remaining superpower) are actually helping the Afghan people (as a whole) by this action - at least half of their population of the XX chromosome. It is not as if this action is not in any way justified... We were provoked. So, in a nutshell, the brutality of this war, when done, may provide a greater good for most of the Afghan people as well as rid the world of people the world should be rid of. In essence, there is a potential for a greater good. I am cynical, but humanistic and somewhat of an optimist. I don't believe other than our flagrant materialist tendencies, the US is all that bad. I work with a great deal of foreigners (at a major international university), including Afghani's and Pakistani's and am not one who is into villifying people because they fall under any label. The statements that I made above are in large part parroting of what my Afghani friends have said. I still stand by the statement that this is a "just" war (Using the Christian concept of a just war stated in the 60's) on the whole. Just a few thoughts, Screamer "I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..." P. Townshend "Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones
Post #21,761 by mmoffitt 12/17/01 6:52:41 PM Reply	One thing I don't feel good about. For as long as I can remember, I have despised bullies. The trouble is, the United States is the biggest bully in the world. Whatever the justification is for our current so-called "war", one message that is abundantly clear to everyone is: "Don't jack with us. You have to accept any amount of unjust treatment that we care to dish out because we are the baddest mother-fsckers in the valley." To be sure, for many decades we have possessed the world's most efficient killing machine. That power, it seems, grants us the right to be as unjust as we care to be without ever having to answer for it or explain it. This is not a popular notion in America today - how many times have you heard, "I don't care why they don't like us! They're going to pay!" or even that it's "un-patriotic to question the policies that brought so many to think so little of us"? Several hundred thousand, that's HUNDRED THOUSAND, children die in Iraq and yet we are not terrorists. We support Israel without question while it commits terror equal to that experienced here, but we do not support terrorism. In Central America, we fund and arm death squads, yet we maintain complete innocense when it comes to terrorism. I could go on, but why should I? We don't have to answer to anyone for that because if any one complains, we will bomb them a thousand times until they are left shell-shocked and their property is in complete ruin. For these reasons, I have a really hard time feeling "good" about our victories. bcnu, Mikem -I'd have a sig, but we Americans "have to watch what they [we] say now".
Post #21,765 by Ashton 12/17/01 7:17:55 PM Reply	Introspection is for the loosers.. Until we somehow become less full of ourselves and our sanctimonious belief in our inherent and unique Righteousness. Will the last-straw come internally or from external forces? Does it matter? It will come. (But maybe not, in time.) Still, watching the progression of this play - IS ugly. A tragedy without any of the wisdom of a Shakespeare, so as at least to make crystal clear.. some repetitive lesson we never get. Imagine an adult 'imagining'! ...a War Against Evil\ufffd - and, that piece of doggerel being greeted with, applause! as by, the MPython "audience of knitting ladies". (Crass mercantilism may have finally succeeded in delivering the death blow to Language itself - in our time?) A.
Post #21,817 by boxley 12/18/01 9:04:28 AM Reply	huh? let saddass sell some of his palaces and feed the fscking kids. Sumbich has money out the ass and claims we are starving his kids? What embargo? Jordan has a direct pipeline to bahgdad with everything Iraq wants. Dont even start on Israel. In Central America guilty as charged. Dont let the rhetoric affect yer brain. thanx, bill My Dreams arn't as empty as my concience seems to ne

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