Post #211,011
6/12/05 2:18:44 PM
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I see every day . . .
. . dozens of signs and bumper stickers proclaiming liberal values, supporting the Constitution (while also supporting our troops), proclaiming that "choice" is not at odds with "family values", condemning ill conceived military adventures in foreign lands and erosion of our freedoms. Daily I engage in conversations with people very vocal about their opposition to our "Rapturing Out" administration.
I have yet to see a single Christian bumper sticker proclaiming against the OT "Christians" who are hijacking your religion right out from under you. Not a single one. Ever.
If there actually is a "majority" of real Christians who stand against the OT "Christian Values" proclaimed by the TV preachers and their political puppets, perhaps their convictions are not strong enough to risk being condemned as "anti-Christian" and "anti-life" by speaking out.
Apparently the only option Christians feel they have to speak out is to accept the label "Liberal" and hope to keep it separate from their Christianity. This isn't easy since the propagandists are indoctrinating Christians everywhere that "Liberal" is synonomous with "athiest baby killer".
So what other conclusion am I supposed I reach from the evidence save that real Christians who truly disagree with the OT fire and brmstone agenda are few and far between, either that or lack conviction?
Is this a "hard problem"? You bet it is, and I don't envy real Christians the internal conflicts they must feel as they face the possibility of extinction.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #211,014
6/12/05 2:59:41 PM
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And so real life
really is like all the sitcoms on TV?
Thats all that pop culture shows us...so it must be accurate. Unless, of course, real life doesn't make good press.
Which do you think is more accurate?
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #211,017
6/12/05 3:25:35 PM
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I wouldn't know . . .
'cause my TV broke down in '58, so I don't really know if sitcoms reflect real life or not, any more than I know what sitcoms have to do with courage of conviction among Christians.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #211,022
6/12/05 3:50:14 PM
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ROFL I'm sure...
...that none of the people with those liberal bumper-stickers could have been Christian, huh.
Your argument here is meaningless; an attempt to rationalize.
Could it be that the Liberal Christians are less likely to shout political slogans in God's name? Nah, can't be, all Christians are just like the fundies - right?
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #211,025
6/12/05 4:05:36 PM
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Perhaps you should read what's written . . .
. . before responding with a simplistic absurdity.
My statement was clear enough that Christians, if they wish to protest the Fundies, feel they cannot do so in a Christian format, but must hide behind a "Liberal" label, which intense anti-liberal propaganda is making it more difficult for Christians to do.
Perhaps you would like to explain now how my statements imply that nobody posting those stickers and signs is a Christian?
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #211,031
6/12/05 4:21:09 PM
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How about your statements... and conclusion.
Christians that don't behave as fundies do lack conviction? How is THAT inconsistent with my post?
'Hide behind a liberal label'? Where do you get THAT? Are you now implying that there is some kind of conflict between Christian and Liberal? I see none. Unless you are a neocon fundie; a minority group among those that call themselves Christian.
And if I misinterpreted "I have yet to see a single Christian bumper sticker proclaiming against the OT "Christians" who are hijacking your religion right out from under you. Not a single one. Ever." after "Daily I engage in conversations with people very vocal about their opposition to our "Rapturing Out" administration." (included with the paragraph re: bumper stickers), well, I think that my interpretation was fair, even if it was incorrect.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #211,032
6/12/05 4:41:56 PM
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There is no fundamental conflict . . . .
. . between Christianity and Liberalism - however, the "Religious Right" has re-defined "Christian" and "Liberal" as diametrically opposed and found this a very effective mobilizer of less thoughtful voters. It has served well enough to seize an extrordinary control of the U.S. government.
This definition is far more vulnerable questioned from a Christian context than from a Liberal context from which questioning only helps build a confrontational atmosphere. Confrontation gives rabble rousers the upper hand, so as long as Christians fail to approach the problem from a Christian context the Fundies will have their way and their way of defining "Christian".
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #211,027
6/12/05 4:06:47 PM
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hmm, wonder if these bumber stickers would sell
for Jesus against Republicans
Not in Jesus name Mr President
God Country and Democratic Party
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #211,053
6/12/05 8:24:43 PM
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"God is a Liberal"
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #211,078
6/13/05 8:41:10 AM
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I've seen at least one
Would Jesus bomb Iraq?
However I'll admit that they are rarer than hen's teeth, and I would like to see more of them.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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