Where to get a cheap distro

Post #21,024 by drewk 12/11/01 3:24:35 PM Reply	Where to get a cheap distro I thought egghead.com used to sell cheap copies of distros, but they are a part of amazon.com now. Where else can I get a cheap copy of the latest Debian disks? (There's no way I'm going to download it over a dialup.) We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman]
Post #21,027 by Steve Lowe 12/11/01 3:29:26 PM Reply	CheapBytes [link\|http://www.cheapbytes.com\|CheapBytes] has them for $10. ----- Steve
Post #21,030 by drewk 12/11/01 3:32:58 PM Reply	Thanks. BTW is Debian not on 2.4 kernel yet? How long does it take for Debian to move a new kernel into the stable tree? How long should I expect it to be before the stable tree has the 2.4 kernel? We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman]
Post #21,031 by pwhysall 12/11/01 3:34:05 PM Reply	Bloody ages. Never mind Debian, you want a proper distro, like Red Hat. Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #21,033 by drewk 12/11/01 3:40:22 PM Reply	Oh damn, get the asbestos I'm just about to do that anyway. I got to liking Debian using it at work (apt really does rock) but without a high-speed, always-on connection, its utility diminishes somewhat. For my home laptop (limited space) I expect to do one install and pretty much leave it as is. I know what I need to do what I want to do, and don't plan on having to update often. Isn't that the purpose of a stable OS after all, that you don't have to constantly fiddle with it? Reminds me of car seats, in a way. I've had cars with seats that couldn't be adjusted very much, but they felt great. I've had other cars with seats that adjusted eight ways from Sunday but none of them felt right. Time to see what's in the latest RedHat and Mandrake distros. We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman]
Post #21,035 by admin 12/11/01 3:46:29 PM Reply	Do yourself a favor... ... and try SuSE while you're at it. ;-) Regards, -scott anderson
Post #21,037 by drewk 12/11/01 3:51:36 PM Reply	Aaaarrrrggghh!!! Me: Where can I get A? Peanut gellery: You don't want A, you want B. Me: You're right, maybe I'll try B. PG: No, C! C! Me: Aaaarrrrggghh!!! We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman]
Post #21,039 by admin 12/11/01 3:55:19 PM Reply	Muah. It's all an evil plot to DRIVE YOU TO OS/2!!!! Seriously, though, I've used RedHat for a long time, and I find that SuSE Just Works Better[tm]. I tried Mandrake for my laptop, but I couldn't get it to load. Ditto Debian. So my real experience is between RedHat and SuSE. Regards, -scott anderson
Post #21,042 by drewk 12/11/01 4:05:48 PM Reply	Hmm, CheapBytes doesn't have it At least not that I can find. All they seem to have the the official versions with the docs, and copies of the evaluation version. Am I missing something? We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman]
Post #21,058 by admin 12/11/01 5:12:09 PM Reply	Dunno. You can either d/l it, or buy the official version, apparently. The official version is worth it, IMO, as you get some really, really nice printed documentation with the CDs. Regards, -scott anderson
Post #21,062 by bepatient 12/11/01 5:17:05 PM Reply	Last I check, you can only >buy< the current version. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #21,067 by admin 12/11/01 5:23:00 PM Reply	Re: Last I check, you can only >buy< the current version. [link\|ftp://ftp.rpmfind.net/linux/SuSE-Linux/i386/7.3/\|Download All You Want, We'll Code More] Regards, -scott anderson
Post #21,068 by Another Scott 12/11/01 5:24:17 PM Reply	I think he meant from CheapBytes. Correct BP?
Post #21,075 by bepatient 12/11/01 5:41:21 PM 12/11/01 5:43:38 PM Reply	Well...it always pays to look again... It appears that they have made the 7.3 iso images available. (post edit: only for SPARC can I find the iso images) For i386 I can still only find the demo) Last time I looked it was only available as a demo or for sale. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient] Edited by bepatient Dec. 11, 2001, 05:43:38 PM EST Expand All History
Post #21,043 by pwhysall 12/11/01 4:06:22 PM Reply	For a working box you don't need to twiddle nearly as much as someone like me actually does. Frexample, you don't need to build your own kernel; you don't need to run snapshots of GNOME 2.0 CVS; you don't need the latest version of XMMS, etc etc etc. If you stay within the boundaries of your distribution, and keep up with updates that are essential (like security updates), then you'll have a box that just runs and runs. Of course, it will be somewhat less fun than mine, but hey :) Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #21,087 by kmself 12/11/01 6:55:07 PM Reply	Debian & kernels Kernels are largely independent of Debian version. You should be able to snarf the kernel of your choosing from either the Debian package site of your choosing, or from kernel.org. I'm still leaning slightly to 2.2.x kernels, as the 2.4 has still not meaningfully stabilized. Unless you're interested in cutting-edge features, there's no compelling need for 2.4. Reiserfs support is avialable (via patches) for 2.2, which is the main argument I would consider. It's possible to run Debian over a dialup. If needs be, run updates periodically on an overnight basis if you can't tie up a phone during the day, or snarf off of someone's high-speed link. For an intermittently connectec box, you can be a bit more lax with updates. I'd still recommend going with an unstable, rather than stable, release. The difference is that you want to pin most of your packages so you're not doing low-level updates. Stick to security and bugfix stuff. That Peter guy? He's full of shit half the time, and British the rest of it ;-) `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?`
Post #21,032 by bepatient 12/11/01 3:35:08 PM Reply	Which one do you want? You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #21,034 by drewk 12/11/01 3:46:16 PM 12/11/01 3:52:04 PM Reply	Here's what I need Need: VI Apache PHP Postgres PL/pgSQL Must tolerate low RAM. Things I just assume it'll have: Perl GCC Distro-appropriate system tools Gnome OR KDE (I can live with either, though smaller footprint and resources is a plus on this machine) Extras: MySQL Python (might as well check it out) Glade or other devel tools I know some of that is in the Debian non-free, some of it might not be in the "official" distros at all. Is there a convenient way to check if a distro has various packages? We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman] Edited by drewk Dec. 11, 2001, 03:52:04 PM EST Expand All History
Post #21,040 by Another Scott 12/11/01 3:56:27 PM Reply	Maybe distrowatch.com would help you. It seems to be dedicated to comparing Linux distributions. Last updated today. [link\|http://www.distrowatch.com/major.htm\|[link\|http://www.distrowatch.com/major.htm\|http://www.distrowatch.com/major.htm]] is a big table comparing the "major" distributions. Nav4.x doesn't like it (no surprise), but Mozilla 0.9.4 displays it properly. Cheers, Scott.
Post #21,045 by drewk 12/11/01 4:12:36 PM Reply	So much for Suse No PHP. No Postgres. No MySQL. No SSL. Oh, but it has Pythin. But no Zope. Tell me again how you recommended this one, Scott? (Not you, AnotherScott, AdminScott.) We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman]
Post #21,063 by admin 12/11/01 5:18:15 PM Reply	Uh, they're wrong. Completely. [sanderso@bd00402:~]$ sudo rpm -q -a \| grep php mod_php4-core-4.0.4pl1-90 mod_php4-4.0.4pl1-90 phplib-7.2c-45 phpdoc-4.0.3-38 [sanderso@bd00402:~]$ sudo rpm -q -a \| grep -i ssl openssl-0.9.6a-35 docbook-dsssl-stylesheets-1.64-19 openssl-devel-0.9.6a-35 I don't have them installed, but the distro comes with zope 2.3.1, mysql 3.23.37 and postgres 7.0.3. This is distro version 7.2, mind you, so 7.3 will have updated versions. There is NO other distribution that comes with as much software as SuSE. 7.2 has 7 CDs and a DVD (for the source code). Regards, -scott anderson
Post #21,066 by drewk 12/11/01 5:22:55 PM Reply	That's not just a little wrong, either That's badly, badly out of date. If anyone else is making decisions based on that ... We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman]
Post #21,065 by Another Scott 12/11/01 5:21:51 PM Reply	Looks like you want the Professional version. [link\|http://www.suse.com/en/products/suse_linux/i386/packages_professional/index.html\|Here's] a list of packages in the Pro version. Includes PHP, Postgres, MySQL and sslwrap (close enough?). Maybe you'll need to check for other versions from the big distros as well. I guess distrowatch only compares the "personal" versions.... Hmm. They do have a [link\|http://www.distrowatch.com/server.htm\|server] version comparison, but little data is in the table. HTH. Cheers, Scott. (I see Scott's given more data as well.)
Post #21,044 by scoenye 12/11/01 4:07:00 PM Reply	RedHat's GCC GCC 2.96 is a dead-end development snapshot taken on the way to GCC 3.0. There are a number of things out there it doesn't like. I couldn't get XFree86 4.1.0 to compile properly with it. (2.91.66 is also included to compile kernels, but it takes some rewiring to use it as the default compiler)
Post #21,047 by pwhysall 12/11/01 4:26:33 PM Reply	Re: RedHat's GCC Eh? I run 7.2 here and am talking to you direct from my own home-brewed XFree86 4.1.0, compiled with 2.96... GCC is in a state of flux right now. GCC 3.0 won't compile a kernel right. Earlier than 2.96 have borked C++. 2.96 is a snapshot. Go figure. Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #21,199 by scoenye 12/12/01 3:19:34 PM Reply	Dunno what I did wrong then ... I'm usually pretty good at following compile instructions. I didn't specify any funny options either. GCC 2.96 died halfway through (can't recall the exact spot anymore) signalling an error in the code. I couldn't see anything wrong in the code or in the include file tree. I downloaded GCC 3.0 after that and it compiled the same XFree86 source without errors.
Post #21,051 by bepatient 12/11/01 4:50:01 PM Reply	Pick one...then let me know. It sounds like RH 7.2...though Mdk has Zope. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #21,052 by drewk 12/11/01 4:55:45 PM Reply	That's what I had just about decided Mandrake also has CUPS, Evolution and Webmin. It looks like Mandrake is a winner. We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman]
Post #21,054 by pwhysall 12/11/01 5:01:54 PM Reply	Mandrake is EVIL I'm hearing reports from a couple of guys I know that MDK 8.1 is waaay buggy, with "odd things" happening; printing Just Not Working anymore and stuff. I don't like MDK's installer, either - the "Linux By The Megabyte" method is just too surreal for me :) Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #21,055 by drewk 12/11/01 5:06:17 PM Reply	Aaaaarrrggghhh!!!! The Sequel Now why do you people have to go do things like this. It's almost enough to make me want something nice and simple like Windows. Hmmpphh. Heh. Heh-heh. BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry. I tried to do that with a straight face. Couldn't quite pull it off. We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman]
Post #21,059 by pwhysall 12/11/01 5:14:51 PM Reply	The Wonder Of Linux is twofold. One, you have all this choice. Two, no matter what you choose, it's The Wrong Thing. Enjoy! Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #21,072 by Steve Lowe 12/11/01 5:36:07 PM Reply	heh. It's called CHOICE :-) I've got RH7.2 on my laptop and my wife's machine, both dual boot (I do like GRUB, seems much more reliable than LILO). Both installed and ran fine, both built new kernels, both have compiled anything I've thrown at them (not much, admittedly) You know, anything you want that may not be in a distro is rather easily obtained and installed... I do want to give SuSE a whirl one of these days though. ----- Steve
Post #21,076 by Ashton 12/11/01 5:44:29 PM Reply	Cackle.. glorp. This multiple-choice er variety thing is a nice idea.. Like Goodness. But what we Really want is: each distro has Everything and installs the same and includes a customized audio tape which walks us from the package to the grave, narrated by Tom Hanks in folksy mode.. with 3 stages from infant through mediocre.. on to presumptuous KnowItAll. (Opt. voice: Valley Gurrl-speak + tunes for every mood.) (Well, I do.) :-\ufffd {sheesh} I think I'll end up with the one with the best $&#%^ Printed Documentation, granularity from boulder to chick-pea and yes: GUI install with X- finding my &^$#& video card and Liking It. OR: Swing LILO Sweet Chariot.. comin fer to carry me /Home...* Ashton the Slothful Complexity is Everything. When you can simplify that, you've got it made. (like Sincerity)
Post #21,077 by pwhysall 12/11/01 5:50:52 PM Reply	Re: Cackle.. glorp. {sheesh} I think I'll end up with the one with the best $&#%^ Printed Documentation, granularity from boulder to chick-pea and yes: GUI install with X- finding my &^$#& video card and Liking It. You need to buy a boxed copy of Red Hat or SuSE, then. Both have excellent printed manuals. Peter* Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #21,080 by admin 12/11/01 6:16:21 PM Reply	Yeap. First printed documentation I've actually found to be useful. Regards, -scott anderson
Post #21,081 by Ashton 12/11/01 6:23:51 PM Reply	Thanx - leaning that way from 6.1 SuSE .docs I have which I've been using to crawl up to speed. From what you all say lately, latest of RH, Debian, SuSE, Mandrake are indeed damn near idiot-proof unless one has rilly weird h/ware. (I gave up on even messing with the 486s for all obv. reasons - not least of which - driver hunts) Although the SuSE 6.1 manual walks thru a command-line install (useful ref. later on) the book layout, Index! I find intelligible and er logical.. such a refreshing change from menu-nonintuitive AND condescending. My first choice - whether stand-alone or dual-boot, when I nab another cheapo eMachine. WTF in for a penny.. Cheers, Ashton
Post #21,056 by bepatient 12/11/01 5:09:15 PM Reply	Well... ...I didn't have any issues with the installer. Printing seems to work over the network. I've not tried directly from the machine..since I don't need to. I've had some wierd goings on with Gnome...otherwise its been an ok experience. That being said...however, the next machine is still getting RH 7.2...but not because I'm unhappy with Mdk as much as I want to see what 7.2 offers as an alternative. I might even try debian...just need a couple of hard drives. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #21,208 by scoenye 12/12/01 3:48:23 PM Reply	Haven't noticed any strange things yet Just finished two fresh installs and one upgrade/cleanup of a Frankendrake 8.0 installation. Printing works to my Canon BJC-3000 on lp0 and to various HPs hooked up through SMB shares. I do have a glitch printing to Axis LAN ports, but this is the first time I tried using their reverse telnet protocol, so I can't pin that one on Mandrake yet. Other than that, it picked up the three different network cards (2 x 3Com, 1 Intel EtherPro 100 which causes NT4 to BSOD), and video chips (Voodoo 3, Intel 810, Cirrus GD5446) first time. But it is porky. You're right there...
Post #21,064 by admin 12/11/01 5:19:50 PM Reply	All of those come in SuSE too. I'm serious. If you want the widest selection of software in the distro, SuSE cannot be beaten. Regards, -scott anderson
Post #21,071 by drewk 12/11/01 5:30:48 PM Reply	Okay, I'm sold It's the only one of the ones I was considering that I haven't already used, so I might as well give it a go. Seven CD's? That's a lot of stuff. The hard part will be deciding what to put in the tiny little partition I've got for it. We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman]
Post #21,122 by tonytib 12/11/01 11:33:07 PM Reply	That's why there's a DVD -- but I'm also happy with SuSE 7.2 although, given how much is there, the hardcopy documentation is still skimpy...but still very useful. Tony
Post #21,250 by slugbug 12/12/01 9:14:00 PM Reply	Agree! Scott, I run SuSE 7.3 on a few Intel boxes here and it's great! Also, very nice on my SPARC boxes. But, I will give Debian a try after my workload lightens up a bit. -Mags
Post #21,261 by folkert 12/12/01 10:26:27 PM Reply	Re: Where to get a cheap distro Well to be honest (groan...oh-boy he type-eth again) I have used Mandrake, Mandrake FREQ, SuSE, Not Debian (well not for a LONG time), Redhat(4-7.2), Slackware when it used the 1.2.x kernel (not sure what version) till recent, SLS while it lasted... All I got to say, is I recently started using the GUI installer for Redhat starting with 7.2(current). All the nice feature you could ALMOST want for ONLY 2.7GB for a "install everything" install. Only thing I got to say about Redhat is lay off the 'spresso and slow down a bit make sure you "fixes" actually fix it and don't break other things. INstall all the updates applicable t oyour system. Then break it by D/L'ing 2.4.16 and compiling it... patch in iSCSI support, (MUCH) improved intel NIC patches, LM_Sensors, latest ip_tables if neded, blah blah blah... modify the makefile for "your extra version" do a make xconfig, load one of the "configs" from an older "redhat" kernel source tree, make changes as needed (btw disale all the CRAP modules you won't ever need) save it out. make dep && make bzImage && make modules && make modules_install, copy needed thing to needed areas (following redhat's naming convention for kernels, System.map, modules.info, initrd's and so on is a good thing as thier script help keep that stuf straight a boot up), edit /boot/grub/grub.conf put in all the needed info (kind self explanatory), including a failback kernel, grub doesn't need to be re-ran nearly at all to get new kernels to boot... shutdown all yer crud and restart the box... if all goes well (usually it does work) access it (how ever you do it: telnet, shh, RIB board... blah blah)start yer crud should it need to be "manually started" (oracle, tuxedo, jolt, coldfusion, weblogic, are good examples of that). Notice significantly better performance from the same kernel assuming you benchmarked it before... :) So, my reccomendation is get yur latest dist you want, and move it to a 2.4.16 kernel, update all you need to, to do it (some things like usermode, make, autoconf, glibc, etc...) Update yur X to 4.1.x (yur X replacement if you don't know how to un-RPMize(package mgr) it is a bit harry) and needed other things. Over all you'll enjoy the fruits of your labor and in the meantime learn a hell of a lot... and it really can happen all while you are using the dang thing too... Me, I use Slack and RedHat at home, neat thing IP-TABLES has grown to be, great tool at [link\|http://www.fwbuilder.org/\|www.fwbuilder.org] AWESOME. 11 rules defined in XML built my entire iptables script, including spoofing (inbound and outbound), only certain services allowed to certain hosts, fully stateful connection track and ICMP trickery. Just make sure iptables 1.2.4 and linux kernel 2.4.10+ is used. If ya need help... I am yur man `greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!` In 2002, everyone will discover that everyone else is using linux. Linux: Good, fast AND cheap. Failure is not an option: It comes bundled with Windows. ** "Two rules to success in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know." - Sassan Tat
Post #21,356 by drewk 12/13/01 1:18:32 PM Reply	Sounds like fun, but ... Did you notice the part where I said this is a PII laptop with 32M (48? maybe) of ram and less than 2G HD space available? Have you ever tried to compile a kernel on one of these? But, once I get it running, maybe ... We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html\|Thomas Friedman]
Post #21,387 by Steven A S 12/13/01 5:44:37 PM Reply	Aww, come on! I've compiled a kernel on a 486 with 32M and a 800M HD. I'm sure others here have done it with less. Oh, sure, the kernels were a bit smaller then. Just start it up before going to bed. :) ~~~)-Steven---- "I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country..." General George S. Patton
Post #21,411 by folkert 12/13/01 9:26:28 PM Reply	Re: Sounds like awww [censored] to me if I ever got ... Sidetracked... Well try Slackware, with or without X, it can miniscule or gigantic. Yes, I know it "ain't being maintained" anymore (yeah right) Do put the newest kernel on it, though... makes ALOT of difference, especially on a "slower" machines. `greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!` In 2002, everyone will discover that everyone else is using linux. Linux: Good, fast AND cheap. Failure is not an option: It comes bundled with Windows. ** "Two rules to success in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know." - Sassan Tat
Post #21,449 by kmself 12/14/01 12:25:45 AM Reply	386SX-33 12 MB 253 MB Built me a kernel. 2.2.x series. Took a while (90 minutes IIRC), and I needed to clear off some packages to do it (emacs). But it worked. My first Debian box. The ability to add/remove packages with ease sold me. I don't see what you're bitching about with your PII 2GB 32 MB monster box ;-) `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?`

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