Wrong conclusion . .

Post #202,780 by Andrew Grygus 4/11/05 12:30:03 AM 4/11/05 12:34:06 AM Reply	Wrong conclusion . . I've got a lot more experience with Linux than with Windows NT/2000. I've been doing Linux servers since at least 1997 and it's been like this every time I move from one distribution to another or one kernel rev to another or the hardware changes substantially. This effort was not at all unexpected. The next one? Of course not - what do you think I wrote that 32-page (11 point) manual for? My health? The next Sarge install won't be much more difficult than the mentioned W2K one - until Sarge is seriously revised (I've already started the 2.6 kernel version manual) or becomes obsolete. The Sarge manual was completely rewritten from the Debian Woody one which was mostly rewritten from the Caldera 2.4 one which was mostly rewritten from the Caldera 2.3 one which was revised from the Caldera 2.2 one which was rewritten from the Caldera 1.3 one. Oh, yes, and I've got a Red Hat Enterprise ES manual to write in a month or so when I move a client from RH7 to ES. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx] Edited by Andrew Grygus April 11, 2005, 12:34:06 AM EDT Wrong conclusion . . I've got a lot more experience with Linux than with Windows NT/2000. I've been doing Linux servers since at least 1997 and it's been like this every time I move from one distribution to another or one kernel rev to another or the hardware changes substantially. This effort was not at all unexpected. The next one? Of course not - what do you think I wrote that 32-page (11 point) manual for? My health? The next Sarge install won't be much more difficult than the mentioned W2K one - until Sarge is seriously revised (I've already started the 2.6 kernel version manual) or becomes obsolete. The Sarge manual was completely rewritten from the Debian Woody one which was mostly rewritten from the Caldera 2.4 one which was mostly rewritten from the Caldera 2.3 one which was revised from the Caldera 2.2 one which was rewritten from the Caldera 1.3 one. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx] Collapse All History
Post #202,807 by drewk 4/11/05 2:45:37 AM Reply	My conclusion You spent a lot of time and effort making sure the Linux box is exactly how you want it. You accept that you could spend all the time in the world and wouldn't be able to make Windows much better than the default install. Different people will interpret that second line different ways. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #202,848 by folkert 4/11/05 10:52:42 AM Reply	I understand your points, Completely. My only thing, is that there are ways to install Debian on a machine that completely departs from Normal. This is why some many other distributions are being based on Debian. Off hand, I can think of 4 ways to install Debian, with out the new installer. Three ways with the New Installer and CD Image. There isn't another distribution I can think of that (unless based on Debian) can be installed so many different ways, yet still come out with the same result. To me, writing down everything I did, works. I guess, being immersed in doing everything the hard way sometimes gives you a different perspective. I like the hard way of doing things most times. It gives me a more internal view of the machine, the view, the goings-on. I guess, being a hardware/software consultant, like yourself, I can see making it repeatable is essential. To me, it is always repeatable for me. Any of the seven ways it can be done, give me repeatable (read as Identical) setups. It is probably unrealistic for me to assume others can do it, but to know things are repeatable for others is a nice thing. I do things differently than most, if you couldn't tell. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* [link\|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230\|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"] No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source]
Post #202,850 by Andrew Grygus 4/11/05 11:00:54 AM Reply	I am not accusing Debian of being . . . . . more obtuse than other distributions - it's not. I've been through this same learning curve with every distrubution I've used. Linux is very expensive to deploy the first time and you have to deploy it pretty much identically enough times to realize economies. Of course, to the enthusiast it's a whole different story. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #202,854 by folkert 4/11/05 11:23:43 AM Reply	Gee, thanks... So I am classed as an Enthusiast. Geez Grygus, don't expect me, the lowly Linux Enthusiast, to be able to help with those Enterprise problems you are having from time to time... </jokeson> No, really, I have done things some people only dream of doing with Linux. I can see your point, repeatability. It is the utmost import. I can achieve repeatability in many ways, I can get to the same machine setup exactly, using pretty much any of the seven ways. Not doubting any of your ability or prowess, I'd bet I could have done your machine without having to reboot but one time, especially since you needed to have persnickety drivers. I'd have done the whole thing in a chroot environment. Then reboot into Debian's baseconfig. Now, documentation... umm, that is what a secretary is for. (yeah I know, shutup already) I know, I really should document my stuff, but damn, I am waiting for that neural interface I can just download it to the 'puter. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* [link\|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230\|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"] No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source]
Post #202,869 by FuManChu 4/11/05 12:30:48 PM Reply	The folkertnet--I'd buy one. ;)

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