If limiting user actions are the best shot...

Post #201,034

3/29/05 7:22:42 AM

then we might as well give it up. What user willingly limits what they can do? Or are you counting on ignorance in your 'targets'? That won't last. Think 'marketing'.

If homogenization is the way, well, it's already been done. It's called the 'Windows Experience'.

If control of the users is the point, then terminals are the way, not PCs.

Again, mark my words - the only way that Gnome will ultimately 'take over' is if it has a fine configuration app that eases configuration included. Otherwise distros that use it will be hobbling themselves and claiming 'this is a good thing'.

And that is NOT a good thing.

[link|http://www.runningworks.com|

]

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #201,040

by pwhysall

3/29/05 8:06:55 AM

We limit all the time...

...otherwise why bother writing software with limits? Why not make the shape of windows configurable? Why not make it configurable between EBCEDIC and ASCII? Why not make it 3D?

I limit what I can do all the time; I limit myself to using a particular set of tools at work; I limit myself to what files I can, in the normal run of play, modify and delete; I limit the amount of functionality that's on the toolbars in the applications I use, so that the functions I do use are there and the functions I don't use are not.

Windows is an incredibly limited environment, and it's got 95%+ market share. Admittedly, a lot of that is down to the less than charming business practices of everyone's favourite monopoly-abusing megacorp, but the fact remains that there's a boatload of people out there who actually like the damn thing. (Yeah, I know. Go figure. But it's true.)

Part of the art of designing user interfaces is the very hard question of what to leave out, because you can't add everything. And when you do, you end up with Enlightenment or FVWM, the full-time serious user-base of which probably wouldn't fill centre court at Wimbledon.

And yeah, think 'marketing'. I know Marketing is Evul and Wrong, but I also know that DIGITAL and Novell thought that good products would sell themselves. They don't.

See ya, VMS! TTFN, Netware! <-- both are much better than UNIX, btw.

Post #201,043

by imric

3/29/05 8:40:48 AM

Your limits

As you stated them, were about adding new things. About not doing everything at once.

Gnome is *harder* to configure now. Users are actively being limited.

Leaving things out; well - that just leaves a market for strap-ons (*chuckle*). Believe me when I say that the lack of a decent configuration tool is just that - a LACK. It will been seen that way and reported that way. It will make Gnome be described in the PC press (you know, the press that the 'targets' are reading) as 'hard to configure' and 'less flexible'. If you think that that is gonna win users, well, say hello to Bigfoot, Elvis, and the Tooth Fairy for me.

And I don't particularly *want* Gnome to go the way of VMS and Netware.

[link|http://www.runningworks.com|

]

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #201,085

by ben_tilly

3/29/05 11:53:12 AM

Hey! What do you have against FVWM???

I use it, and like it. In fact one of my gripes about gnome is that the Debian fvwm folks decided to move to a new version that has some gnome integration. I value the gnome integration not at all, and I loathe the default behaviour on the new fvwm.

At some point I'll bit the bullet and upgrade at work, and probably switch window managers. But until the Gnome integration borked it, fvwm was a fine WM for my needs. (And my needs did not include modifying it significantly from what had been the Debian defaults.)

Cheers,
Ben

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #201,088

by pwhysall

3/29/05 11:56:43 AM

Nothing.

If that's what floats your boat.

And if the new version in Debian angers you enough, you have two choices, both of which will allow you to keep the good old FVWM that you love:

1. Fork it at a point where you deem that you liked it
1a. Compile a debian package sans GNOME integration
2. Pin the package at a suitable version

(2) is less work than (1a) is less work than (a), but all are work; this is what happens when the developers of a package exercise their right to take the package in the direction they want.

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