Post #197,479
3/7/05 11:47:19 AM
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Starting?
We did not discover North Korea yesterday. We've been in dialog for 50 years. There is no doubt whatsoever about the nature of those "businessmen" journalist talked to. They are acomplices to mass murder. Painting them in any other light is so naive as to be incompatible with regular breathing.
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And what are we doing when the two most powerful nations on earth -- America and Israel -- stomp on the elementary rights of human beings?
-- letter to the editor from W. Ostermeier, Liechtenstein
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Post #197,484
3/7/05 12:19:48 PM
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It's not that simple.
The evilness or not of the North Koreans is not at issue. As is amply demonstrated by recent history, oppressive regimes will be tolerated and even funded by the West while it's in the West's financial and/or strategic interests to do so. During these times, the West doesn't say much about the regimes in question. (I'm specifically thinking of the funding of Saddam during the 80s and of Suharto during the 80s and 90s, despite clear and present evidence that both leaders were fully-fledged members of The Nasty Club)
When it is in the West's financial and/or strategic interests to control the regions currently occupied by these regimes, it flexes its considerable military muscle and exerts its more-or-less total financial control. All whilst crying "freedom!".
There's a lot of dead marsh Arabs would have liked some freedom when it was promised the first time around.
North Korea is in the unusual position of being financially puny but with the dual wild-cards of a completely loopy leader plus an unknown but probably non-zero nuclear capability. The atrocious behaviour of the Kim Jong-Il administration towards its own citizens who commit thoughtcrime is well known if not widely publicised. This, however, does not mean that a large proportion of the North Korean population isn't composed of people who are just trying to get by, like you and me. It is my reading that this article is about those people.
It is a common feature of post-September 11th dialogue that the individual people living in a country and the policies and actions of the government of that country are rendered indistinguishable.
It isn't the case.
Peter [link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #197,488
3/7/05 12:30:44 PM
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Well said.
Even if you don't think being 7 generations removed from Ireland (we fled there from Scotland after our clan chief was killed) affords me the luxury of pride in my Scottish heritage. :0)
bcnu, Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer. God Bless America.
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Post #197,495
3/7/05 12:59:56 PM
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No true Scotsman runs away, laddie!
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #197,509
3/7/05 1:25:02 PM
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Didn't they run TO Scotland?
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning, As hopeless as it seems in the middle, Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #197,491
3/7/05 12:36:12 PM
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I guess you answered my question
>>>>>>>>>>>> This, however, does not mean that a large proportion of the North Korean population isn't composed of people who are just trying to get by, like you and me. It is my reading that this article is about those people.
It is a common feature of post-September 11th dialogue that the individual people living in a country and the policies and actions of the government of that country are rendered indistinguishable. <<<<<<<<<<<<
This attitude may have inspired the article. Yes, there is a large majority of North Koreans who are "just trying to get by" without selling their children for [link|http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/06/08/wkor08.xml|meat]. Western journalists will not ever hear the voices of those people, except may be as defectors who escaped prison camps. No, the "businessmen" that the lady reporter interviewed are in no way representative of these people.
[angry rant removed]
--
And what are we doing when the two most powerful nations on earth -- America and Israel -- stomp on the elementary rights of human beings?
-- letter to the editor from W. Ostermeier, Liechtenstein
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Post #197,498
3/7/05 1:03:38 PM
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That's a disingenuous link, Arkadiy.
Your linking of it ("selling their children for meat") implies that some people are, as a matter of course, selling their children to a butcher for monetary gain; the implication is that we are, therefore, reasonably justified in vilifying the populace of North Korea as monsters.
Reading the story gives quite a different impression; a nation, gripped by famine, where people will do just about anything to get food, and there's rumours of "special" meat in the markets. The sources of this information are refugees who have a vested interest in painting the situation as black as possible in order to strengthen their refugee status. Shadow economies have sprung up on a "don't ask, don't tell" basis. Survival is a grim business. Tales of cannibalism abounded in the Irish Potato Famine, too.
Right now is a really bad time to be a North Korean. If you don't starve to death, you'll be sent to the camps or drafted into the army.
The "businessmen" interviewed in the LA Times article might just turn out to be the people who force North Korea to fling off her shackles and face up to the fact that in the modern world, it's strictly business.
Peter [link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #197,501
3/7/05 1:09:45 PM
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Oh, pardon me
Please replace "selling children" with "having children kidnapped" for meat. Feel better?
--
And what are we doing when the two most powerful nations on earth -- America and Israel -- stomp on the elementary rights of human beings?
-- letter to the editor from W. Ostermeier, Liechtenstein
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Post #197,514
3/7/05 1:30:46 PM
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If I do that, my point stands anyway.
Peter [link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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