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New Second point is pretty much pure circular reasoning, AFAICS.
Da Gryge pontificates:
Particularly in humans, a division of labor is necessary because the female is burdened with a child not for just a couple of days or weeks but for years. [Emphasis added - CRC]
Uh... But it is "the female" that is burdened with child-rearing for years precisely because that labour is not equitably divided between both parents!

Cute language-murder trick there -- calling that lack of a division of labour a "division of labor", using the fact that women are unfairly burdened as a justification that it is somehow "fair" that women are more burdened than men.

Not something I would have expected from you, though, Andrew.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New We are not talking 'fair' here, we're talking 'survival'.
Neither nature nor evolution is "fair".

The female is not one bit more burdened by the male not having children than she would be if he also got pregnant - only then she wouldn't have an unencumbered partner for support. This still holds true today with an economic emphasis - being a single mom is a lot harder.

Unfortunately, if the species is to continue, somebody gets the job of bearing and feeding the brats.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Nature is not PC
If we're meant to have an equitable division of labour, then why is it that only women are naturally capable of feeding infants? (And why are only women sure that kids are really hers?)

Evolution proceeds on the basis of life or death issues. A horribly unfair division of labour where there are lots of kids is (evolutionarily) far preferable to a completely equitable division with 1 kid per couple.

Humans are not as extreme as, say, cats. There dad shows up, the sex really sucks, and mom is stranded with the kittens. That's par for the course for most mammals.

By contrast in humans there is at least a considerable amount of tension about how much work dads are going to do, and dads do wind up doing a significant amount of work. (Though less, in general, than moms do.)

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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                 He's referring to BeeP bash - (broomberg) - (1)
                     Re: He's referring to BeeP bash - (bionerd)
                 That's a curious thing to say - (drewk) - (17)
                     Re: That's a curious thing to say - (bionerd)
                     Probably means that we don't do actual (real) work. :-) -NT - (ChrisR)
                     That's sad Drook - (broomberg) - (9)
                         I said 90% didn't I? - (drewk) - (8)
                             It is representative of most of the good ones -NT - (ben_tilly) - (7)
                                 Woudln't that depend on the job? - (drewk) - (6)
                                     Not that often - (ben_tilly) - (5)
                                         Getting a little uppity there, aren't you? - (drewk) - (4)
                                             See what I said about "some organizations" - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                                 tiger teams, had the fortune to work on one once - (daemon)
                                                 Same thing where I work. -NT - (admin)
                                                 That's actually my "non-break" job - (FuManChu)
                     Programming is working with abstractions. - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                         Okay, at that level I see what you mean -NT - (drewk)
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                         Since my explanation in the thread didn't clear this up ... - (drewk) - (1)
                             Because creative \\= abstract - (jake123)
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                     Where's my soldering iron? - (ChrisR) - (13)
                         Which cable, the power or the ribbon? -NT - (drewk) - (12)
                             All of 'em at once. - (ChrisR) - (11)
                                 Quit before the magic smoke comes out though. Can be tricky. -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                     Networking engineering requires a good sense of smell. -NT - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                         ICLRPD (new thread) - (FuManChu)
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                                         Have you ever shorted across the 220 supply with an ohmeter? -NT - (drewk) - (5)
                                             Nope. - (inthane-chan) - (4)
                                                 I helped blow out half of downtown Palm Springs once - (drewk) - (3)
                                                     Funniest one here . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                                                         Do we know Trudy under another name? -NT - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                             No. - (Andrew Grygus)
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                     Weren't you working on changing that state of affairs? -NT - (FuManChu) - (1)
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                     Re: Don't you need abstract thinking in biology? - (bionerd) - (7)
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                             I thought... - (pwhysall) - (1)
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                 He has past cause... - (ben_tilly) - (23)
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                         Cool, there is a slight imbalance in these parts.. -NT - (ben_tilly)
                         Men are parasites ;-) - (ben_tilly) - (19)
                             Re: Men are parasites ;-) - (bionerd) - (18)
                                 Why expend more energy? To get more kids. - (ben_tilly) - (17)
                                     A couple of reasons. - (Andrew Grygus) - (15)
                                         Second point is pretty much pure circular reasoning, AFAICS. - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                             We are not talking 'fair' here, we're talking 'survival'. - (Andrew Grygus)
                                             Nature is not PC - (ben_tilly)
                                         Let me address those reasons for strict sexuality - (ben_tilly) - (11)
                                             well if I were a hermaphrodyte I would never leave the house - (daemon) - (10)
                                                 Don't confuse "hermaphroditic" with "flexible"... -NT - (admin)
                                                 It works for nematodes - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                                     Y'all take all the mystery out of procreation - (ChrisR) - (6)
                                                         Out drinking? Reading Jung? Casting a horoscope? -NT - (ben_tilly)
                                                         OT: Where TH is Ross anyway? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                             Re: OT: Where TH is Ross anyway? - (Yendor) - (1)
                                                                 Ah. Thanks. Missed that. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                             Atlanta, IIRC. ... Oh, you mean. Well, he ran away. :-( -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                         I agree - (Nightowl)
                                                     dont have to try, they fight real well (bull sealions) - (daemon)
                                     Exactly -NT - (bionerd)
                     Re: He has past cause... - (Nightowl)
         Hoy - (admin) - (4)
             Ann Arbor- Heck , no! - (bionerd) - (3)
                 My sister went there for a few years. - (admin) - (1)
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                     Wait until you know me better before calling me an amateur - (bionerd) - (3)
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Besides, we all have spell check these days, right?
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