Right now, you're one to talk about kool-aid

Post #192,363

1/31/05 12:12:23 PM

But go ahead and ignore all of the data that you want. Nobody can make you face facts. And it certainly makes it easier for you to avoid challenging your existing belief system.

About that one comment that you find hilarious, the point of my qualification is that the only way that a capitalist company can succeed in becoming the economy is for them to subvert capitalism. Furthermore I think that it is more than a wee bit counterproductive to implement the universal governmental monopoly that Communism has so far worked out to be to head off the distant possibility that a capitalistic company will manage to establish a similar monopoly.

Cheers,
Ben

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #192,364

by drewk

1/31/05 12:27:52 PM

To elaborate

A company is run by a group of people. Call them Group A.

A government is run by a group of people. Call them Group B.

Letting Group A run the country, including control of Group B, is bad.
Letting Group B run the country, including control of Group A, is good?

Maybe the real problem is when too much control is vested in too few hands, with no non-violent mechanism to change those hands. Before you point out that we have elections for the government but not for corporations, explain:

The 96% incumbancy rate
The fact that the incumbant parties select the slate of people for us to choose from
The fact that people choose to (try to) become CEOs for the money, people try to become politicians for the power -- which is more dangerous?

Then once you can explain all of that, maybe you can provide statistics on the average tenure of elected officials vs the average tenure of corporate officers.

I happen to believe that corporations wield too much power. My disagreement is with the idea that fixing the problem requires vesting all that power in politicians.

===

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Post #192,430

by Ashton

2/1/05 1:32:26 AM

Decent encapsulation - leaving US with,

Where to vest all that power/$ - other than in fewer and fewer obscenely-large pockets?

If that is the/a Major Question, it is a philosophical one not managed (manageable?) via the framers of the Constitution. Their premise was that "free people would remain vigilant!" against all the forces that tend --> corruption.

Nobody expected devolvement of vox pop into a homogenized mass of people too busy just 'consuming', too bemused, lazy? even to pay attention - while flaccidly sorta wishing for "matters to be handled Wisely" cha cha cha
(perhaps by the Sooth Fairy?)

So if we can't expect (the half who even bother to vote) to persistently demand legislation which restores the value of A Vote VS the power of The PACs to buy large blocs of representatives; if we can no longer expect that many votes shall be 'informed' ones; and if we know that the aim of every Corporation is to become as near-monopoly as ever it can finagle: Who does that leave to oversee either bizness or the Country?

And if it is the trend of groups >100 millions to behave in this way.. well, so much for all that political theory -- perhaps each of the US States (or small blocs) should become Nation States; gamble that a manageable size of population just might find enough common cause.. to get off asses and participate [???]
(With nukes, Anyone can 'kinda expect borders to be respected' - see Israel.)

Maybe we just Like To Watch:
present trends of wealth concentration project that we may expect the 1-2% soon to Own US, say 2/3 GNP == close enough. Something will always rush in to fill the vacuum of universal Ennui. What shall we call the New Millennium Murica then? (Corruptocracy is so unmellifluous a word)

I think 'we've become unutterably Boring.. the only Dreams are for more More and yet-MORE [of whatever stuff is New New New this month]. Fat chance of finding 'Renewal', an aim to rethink any aims gone awry - amidst a homogenized mass afflicted with terminal Consumption Disease. Then too - watching such rapid decline is never terribly amusing.. it's just like watching Fav Murican Tee Vee plots. {Ugh}

Post #192,460

by mmoffitt

2/1/05 8:36:24 AM

Nation-states. I've been saying that since high school.

Mostly to broad condemnation. If I recall my history correctly, the population of the country at the framers' time was roughly equal to the population of the state of Indiana today. Think of the consolidation of power by politicians in that span of time! Today 2 people in the Senate represent virtually the same number of people that were represented by the entire Senate back then. I don't think the framers would have suggested a Senate consisting of two people for the entire country; in fact, they didn't.

A loose confederation of independent states, I remain convinced, is the only way to salvage the ideal self-determination described in our Constitution.

bcnu,
Mikem

Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
(Just trying to be accepted in the New America)

Post #192,461

by imric

2/1/05 8:54:42 AM

*grin* A Rebel!

Wear the Gray proudly... And hey! They believed in a two-class system, too!

*chuckle*

[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|

]

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #192,522

by mmoffitt

2/1/05 3:27:17 PM

Well, I *am* a tarheel, you know. :-)

bcnu,
Mikem

Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
(Just trying to be accepted in the New America)

Welcome to IWETHEY!