Post #192,256
1/30/05 10:20:10 AM
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Ever heard of Benazir Bhutto? Powerful muslim women exist.
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #192,257
1/30/05 10:23:41 AM
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Also the prophet's daughter kicked serious ass as well
I love her dearly, far beyond any creature I've ever known, and I can prove it, for never once in almost seventy years of married life have I taken her by the throat. Mind you, it's been a near thing once or twice. George Macdonald Frasier Clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #192,258
1/30/05 10:49:15 AM
1/30/05 11:32:22 AM
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Good counterpoint. But...
Nepotism helps. ;-) She would not have become Prime Minister without her father's name. And she was rather weak in that position, at least partially because she was opposed for being a woman, IIRC. [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto|Wikipedia]: Benazir Bhutto (born June 21, 1953) became the first woman to lead a Muslim country in modern times when she was elected Prime Minister of Pakistan in 1988, only to be deposed in a coup 20 months later. She was re-elected in 1993 but was dismissed three years later amid various corruption scandals. Some of these scandals involve contracts awarded to Swiss companies during her regime and remain unresolved. Her husband, Asif Ali Zardari, has been implicated as well, and remained in jail until November 2004.
The daughter of former Pakistani premier Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, Benazir was educated in the west, notably at Harvard University and Lady Margaret Hall, Oxford. She temporarily left Harvard for New York City in 1971, when India sent troops into East Pakistan -- soon to be called Bangladesh -- and her father, as Pakistan's foreign minister, traveled to the United Nations to resolve the issue. Benazir Bhutto joined her father in New York City and acted as a kind of assistant to him. This seems to have been a formative experience for her, in that watching her father in action brought her out of academia and showed her the ways of power politics. Her remaining years in the United States included active participation in various social causes.
[...]
After graduating, she returned to Pakistan, but, in the course of her father's imprisonment and execution, she was placed under house arrest. Having been allowed, in 1984, to go back to the UK, she was leader in exile of the Pakistan Peoples Party, her father's party, but was unable to make her political presence felt in Pakistan until the death of General Zia ul-Haq.
Then, in the first open election in more than a decade, voters in Pakistan elected Benazir on November 16, 1988 to be Prime Minister. Bhutto was sworn in on December 2, becoming the first woman to head the government of a Muslim-majority state in modern times.
Bhutto has lived in self-imposed exile since 1999 when she left Pakistan to avoid arrest in a corruption case. While she still heads the Pakistan People's Party and says she wants to return to office, most people in Pakistan are convinced that she and her husband were indeed extremely corrupt. Her husband, Asif Ali Zardari, served a seven-year prison term in Pakistan on charges of taking kickbacks. He was released in November 2004 [link|http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/region.php?id=99541®ion=2|[1]]. It is alleged that they stole hundreds of millions of dollars by demanding 'commissions' on all types of government contracts and other dealings.
It was during Bhutto's rule that the repressive Taliban gained prominence in Afghanistan with the financial assistance of her government. The Taliban took power in Kabul in September 1996, and Bhutto's government became one of only three nations to recognize it. In the administrations following Bhutto's, Pakistan remained a key supporter of the regime until the September 11 attacks in the United States.
[...] What's that expression? [link|http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxtheexc.html|The exception proves the rule]. Yes, there are some examples of strong women in some muslim societies. But Bhuttos or Cillers or Wajeds or Zias are [link|http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sch618/Women/Muslim_Women_Today.html|very very rare]. Three of the four are daughters or widows of high-ranking politicians. Ciller did not come from a political family. [edit:] tyop. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #192,260
1/30/05 10:52:47 AM
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family connections dont count here? Bush Kennedy
I love her dearly, far beyond any creature I've ever known, and I can prove it, for never once in almost seventy years of married life have I taken her by the throat. Mind you, it's been a near thing once or twice. George Macdonald Frasier Clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #192,261
1/30/05 11:13:23 AM
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Of course they do.
Let's go back to my original [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=192253|comment]: I agree, the tie-in isn't very strong except from my perception of the similar societal attitudes (e.g. strong women, or women having power over men, is unheard of in Islam). The woman in Nepal was punished by her society because she didn't live up to an inflexible, male-imposed, ideal of what a woman's role is, just as in Islamic countries women are often regarded as unclean temptresses by other inflexible, male-imposed ideals.The brush was a little broad, but only a little IMO. There are exceptions, and I know of no society in the world where women and men are fully equal in political, economic and social power. But some muslim nations are especially egregious, e.g. [link|http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGMDE230152004|Amnesty International]'s report on Saudi Arabia: Saudi Arabia is gearing up for the country's first nationwide municipal elections early next year, but half of the population will not be taking part. Women have been excluded. This is contrary to the country's election law, which does not explicitly ban women from taking part.
The exclusion also undermines recent positive developments in the country, such as the much publicised "National Dialogue", which included a focus on women's rights and their ratification of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW). The ratification in October 2000 was done without reservation about Article 7 on political participation.
[...]
Saudi Arabia's electoral law is clear about women's participation. The law uses the word "citizen" -- in Arabic, this refers to both men and women in indicating those eligible to vote. Despite this, Interior Minister Prince Nayef bin Abdel Aziz announced last month that women would not be allowed to take part in the elections, saying "I don't think that women's participation is possible."
The Head of the Election Committee, Prince Mut'ab bin Abdul Aziz, said, "I expect women to participate in elections in future stages, after conducting studies to assess whether it is useful or not." Amnesty International opposes Saudi Arabia's plans to ban women from participation in the forthcoming elections and believes that the right to universal suffrage is a fundamental right that must not be delayed.
[...]
In Saudi Arabia, not only are women being blocked from participating in politics, they are not permitted to move freely without the company of an immediate male relative (Mahram), even to seek urgent medical attention.
A simple activity like walking down the street is prohibited for women who are not allowed to walk in public without the company of a Mahram. Breaching these codes gives rise to suspicion of prostitution and may result in arrest, brutality, and torture by police, particularly the religious police (Mutawa'een), who patrol the streets monitoring, among other things, women's conduct or dress or behaviour.
Further gender-based restrictions on the freedom of movement include the prohibition on women driving cars. Fourteen years ago, 47 women took part in an unprecedented protest against what was then customary law. They drove a convoy of cars in Riyadh and were immediately arrested and detained for hours. They were released only after their male relatives signed undertakings that the women would not violate the ban again.
Those among them who had jobs in the public sector were dismissed from their jobs by a royal decree. A fatwa (religious ruling) was issued by the senior council of Ulama (Clerics) stating that women were not allowed to drive. This was followed by a government statement supporting the fatwa and warning of punishment for women who do not respect it. Opposition to the ban is growing once again as the economy opens up and more women find work.
The country's Labour Minister announced in May 2004 that women may carry out business activities without the need for a wakil (representative). Although the impact of this decision is still unclear, AI welcomes all steps that seek to reduce restrictions against women's right to work and lessen discrimination against women.
Women in Saudi Arabia continue to challenge many severe forms of discrimination in the fields of personal status, employment, participation in public life, the subordination of women to men, and restrictions on their freedom of movement.
[...] Emphasis added. Independent women are suspected of being prostitutes. That's about all I can say about this. I'll bow out now. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #192,263
1/30/05 11:22:28 AM
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slavery is still legal in saudi, backward fsckers anyway
I love her dearly, far beyond any creature I've ever known, and I can prove it, for never once in almost seventy years of married life have I taken her by the throat. Mind you, it's been a near thing once or twice. George Macdonald Frasier Clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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