I prefer "try before you buy"

and you say just go to Amazon.com to hear samples...

Okay, then, doing it your way: I'll go to Amazon's website, search for a BAND OR COMEDIAN THAT I'VE NEVER HEARD BEFORE, OR EVEN KNOW EXISTS, randomly picking a link for an album listing to listen to a clip, and buy it based upon that.

You can't be proposing that, are you? Really?

I prefer better information before making a purchase, and I don't think I'm exaggerating by saying that a super-majority of the population does too. If the clip available at Amazon gives you enough exposure to something to convince you to buy it, then that's your way; it isn't mine.

Regarding Peter's comments: he berates me by saying I INTEND to violate copyright. I didn't know that he was a mind reader from 5000 miles away. Not my intention at all, just an end result during acquisition of many things not available through other outlets (think "bootleg records" from the 60s and 70s as an example). But he tops it off by saying that I'm so out-of-date by going to newsgroups, and I should use BitTorrent, the Peter Whysall approved way to violate copyrights. Hypocrisy, plain and simple.

You. Are. Violating. Copyrights.

You. Intend. To. Do. Something. That. Violates. Copyrights.

Therefore. You. Intend. To. Violate. Copyrights.

Period.

Violating copyrights is not your end goal. Understood. You have a justification for violating copyrights. Understood. You think that that justification is good enough for you to do it. All of these are understood.

But you're clearly intentionally violating the law. No matter how much you think that you're in the right, under the law it isn't your decision. End of story.

As for Amazon, if you hadn't noticed they have a recommendation scheme. It may not be perfect, but it is intended to help people look for stuff that they'll like and might not know about. It is almost like Amazon wants you to find out about these people. Amazing, huh?

Incidentally there is a nice essay about this at [link|http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.10/tail.html|http://www.wired.com...e/12.10/tail.html].

Now maybe you find out about more people with your current strategy. I won't deny that ignoring copyrights entirely leads to more browsing and often more buying. Perhaps there are people you won't find on Amazon that you're encountering.

But it isn't ludicrous to suggest Amazon as a way to discover people that you don't know you'll like. They've deliberately set themselves up to make it reasonably easy to do that. Without violating copyright.

On the other hand it is ludicrous to maintain that your excuses for violating copyright somehow mean that you don't intend to go out and violate copyright. Unless you're 15 and don't have a clear understanding of the difference between, "This is what the law says" and "This is what I want to believe that the law says". Even then you'd still be wrong to maintain it.

Regards,
Ben

Post #191,135 by lincoln 1/21/05 10:55:44 PM Reply	I prefer "try before you buy" and you say just go to Amazon.com to hear samples... Okay, then, doing it your way: I'll go to Amazon's website, search for a BAND OR COMEDIAN THAT I'VE NEVER HEARD BEFORE, OR EVEN KNOW EXISTS, randomly picking a link for an album listing to listen to a clip, and buy it based upon that. You can't be proposing that, are you? Really? I prefer better information before making a purchase, and I don't think I'm exaggerating by saying that a super-majority of the population does too. If the clip available at Amazon gives you enough exposure to something to convince you to buy it, then that's your way; it isn't mine. Regarding Peter's comments: he berates me by saying I INTEND to violate copyright. I didn't know that he was a mind reader from 5000 miles away. Not my intention at all, just an end result during acquisition of many things not available through other outlets (think "bootleg records" from the 60s and 70s as an example). But he tops it off by saying that I'm so out-of-date by going to newsgroups, and I should use BitTorrent, the Peter Whysall approved way to violate copyrights. Hypocrisy, plain and simple. lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #191,140 by ben_tilly 1/21/05 11:42:44 PM Reply	This shouldn't be complex You. Are. Violating. Copyrights. You. Intend. To. Do. Something. That. Violates. Copyrights. Therefore. You. Intend. To. Violate. Copyrights. Period. Violating copyrights is not your end goal. Understood. You have a justification for violating copyrights. Understood. You think that that justification is good enough for you to do it. All of these are understood. But you're clearly intentionally violating the law. No matter how much you think that you're in the right, under the law it isn't your decision. End of story. As for Amazon, if you hadn't noticed they have a recommendation scheme. It may not be perfect, but it is intended to help people look for stuff that they'll like and might not know about. It is almost like Amazon wants you to find out about these people. Amazing, huh? Incidentally there is a nice essay about this at [link\|http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.10/tail.html\|http://www.wired.com...e/12.10/tail.html]. Now maybe you find out about more people with your current strategy. I won't deny that ignoring copyrights entirely leads to more browsing and often more buying. Perhaps there are people you won't find on Amazon that you're encountering. But it isn't ludicrous to suggest Amazon as a way to discover people that you don't know you'll like. They've deliberately set themselves up to make it reasonably easy to do that. Without violating copyright. On the other hand it is ludicrous to maintain that your excuses for violating copyright somehow mean that you don't intend to go out and violate copyright. Unless you're 15 and don't have a clear understanding of the difference between, "This is what the law says" and "This is what I want to believe that the law says". Even then you'd still be wrong to maintain it. Regards, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #191,145 by pwhysall 1/22/05 3:06:15 AM Reply	Ah say, ah say, that was a JOKE, son! I know you people aren't terribly good at detecting irony, but that was particularly impressive. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #191,392 by lincoln 1/24/05 2:40:14 PM Reply	As I said before [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=186926\|post #186926], we need a sign for that! lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #191,153 by daemon 1/22/05 10:06:30 AM Reply	bootleg records, 70's/friend 1-5 for selling them that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #191,259 by CRConrad 1/23/05 5:01:07 PM Reply	What - if anything - does that mean?
Post #191,260 by Another Scott 1/23/05 5:11:18 PM Reply	I think I know. bootleg records, 70's/friend 1-5 for selling them "A fellow I knew in the 1970s was caught selling bootleg records. He was arrested and put on trial. He was ultimately found guilty and sentenced to 1 to 5 years in prison." Am I close? Cheers, Scott.
Post #191,273 by a6l6e6x 1/23/05 10:42:50 PM Reply	Pretty good match with my Boxish to English translation. :) Alex The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #191,296 by CRConrad 1/24/05 3:43:26 AM Reply	"Friend of mine got 1-5 yrs for selling bootlegs in the 70s" So why the fuck didn't you write THAT, "daemon", you stupid fuck?!? [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #191,305 by broomberg 1/24/05 6:53:01 AM Reply	Kind of like reverse polish notation Box is stacked based
Post #191,307 by pwhysall 1/24/05 7:01:17 AM Reply	Dunno about "stacked"... ...he certainly writes like he's loaded. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #191,312 by daemon 1/24/05 7:38:13 AM Reply	:-) Anyone who has passed through the regular gradations of a classical education, and is not made a fool by it, may consider himself as having had a very narrow escape: Samuel Butler clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #191,560 by jb4 1/25/05 1:53:48 PM Reply	Ya shouldn't a went and said that... Now look what chew went and did! jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT

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