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New The Microsoft standard is anything but
I didn't know that MSN users were forced to use Exchange. Does any other ISP force their customers to use a certain mail program? It sounds like another case of tying, if you asked me. I expect nothing less from Microsoft anymore.
[link|http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010716/tc/the_microsoft_standard_is_anything_but_1.html|
The Microsoft standard is anything but]
By Henry Kingman, Enterprise

If you work in an office in the United States in 2001, Microsoft products are almost certainly standard issue. That doesn't make them true standards, however, despite the fact that Microsoft does everything it can to set, rather than follow, standards. Arguably, Microsoft's control over standards sets it up to both dominate and, one day, to fall.
....
For its part, Microsoft requires all of its dial-up MSN Internet services customers to use Outlook. There may be some feature-ish justification for this, such as improved SPAM filtering. But from some angles enforcing email client choice through an ISP doesn't smell too different than enforcing default Web browser choice through an operating system. It's the same kind of hi-jinx that ran Microsoft afoul of the Sherman Act and its interdictions against anti-competitive corporate behavior. After all, every other email provider on earth abides by the standards--why can't Microsoft?
New Picking a nit.
I didn't know that MSN users were forced to use Exchange

They're not. Outlook. Outlook is the client.

Exchange is the backend (And if someone can tell me that they're running MSN 100% on Exchange, I'll be surprised). There is an Exchange client, but Outlook is usually installed.

Outlook supports (for some value of support) POP and IMAP.

Does any other ISP force their customers to use a certain mail program?

I don't think that they *force* it, do they? Or do they *not support* other programs? I know of a lot of ISP's (granted, not with a monopoly in desktop OSes) who only support one, or two programs.

Addison
New So far I haven't found . . .
. . . any ISP that PMMail has any problems with (avail OS/2, Windows), but I don't remember if I've ever attached it to MSN.

I do have one client with Exchange Server for their internal messaging and external e-mail. Problem here is that Exchange can send mail to an ISP using SMTP, but it insists on a cranky version of SMTP to fetch mail from the ISP. Most ISPs just have POP mailboxes and even if they do have SMTP available it often doesn't work with Exchange.

The usual solution is to attach to a specialized gateway ISP, which this client did, and the cost kept going up, then they stopped supporting dial-up (IDSL became available to my client just in time), then they decided not to do gateway anymore.

What I did was put Pythaes MailGate on the same server with Exchange. It fetches the mail and distributes it (from one pooled mailbox, from individual mailboxes, or from different ISPs, no problem) through Exchange, and picks up and sends outgoing mail to the ISP. This program is slicker 'n snail snot - easy to set up, extremely configurable and simple to administer. Made in Frogland (where snail snot is quite familiar in the kitchen).
[link|www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Any attack on MS is a good attack but
it's not Exchange

so some say its Outlook

well it's not Outlook

if anything, it's Outlook Express

the difference?

Outlook is part of MS Office

Outlook Express is a free download

A
New Arghh!!!!!!!!
I'm not even going to tell you how many times I've run into this distinction.

Why couldn't MS name Outlook or Outlook Express something SUBSTANTIALLY different?

Each product has a different feature set. You're Exchange problem isn't an Exchange problem if it's an Outlook problem.

Your Outlook problem isn't an Outlook problem if it is an Exchange problem.

And some weird ISP's actually run Exchange and require Outlook (Blackberry).

Arghh!!!!!!

It's hard enough trying to get someone to tell me whether they're running Win95/98/ME/NT/2000.

Just my rant for the day.
New Re: Arghh!!!!!!!!
"Why couldn't MS name Outlook or Outlook Express something SUBSTANTIALLY different?"

Because they wanted to confuse people!

(and I know you already know that.) Your rant gives you away.
New Weird ISPs running Exchange.
I've got one outfit trying to get me to convince clients to use their Exchange hosting service. Their reasoning is that since exchange is too difficult for the clients to administer, they'll run it instead and the clients can access their Exchange server using Outlook over the Internet.

Last call he accidently let slip the cost. Starts at over $900/month.
[link|www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
     The Microsoft standard is anything but - (brettj) - (6)
         Picking a nit. - (addison)
         So far I haven't found . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
         Any attack on MS is a good attack but - (andread) - (3)
             Arghh!!!!!!!! - (Brandioch) - (2)
                 Re: Arghh!!!!!!!! - (brettj)
                 Weird ISPs running Exchange. - (Andrew Grygus)

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