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New "Airbus A380 doubledecker plane"
[link|http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh32226_2005-01-16_17-57-15_l14136985_newsml|Reuters]:
* The A380 is 15 metres wider, 4 metres taller, 2 metres longer and 118 tonnes heavier than the Boeing Co. (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) 747 jumbo, which has reigned as the largest airliner for four decades.

* The A380 looks like a 747 jumbo with the upper deck stretched all the way back to the tail.

* The Airbus double-decker is the length of eight London buses and has enough room on its massive wings to park 70 cars.

* The A380 will seat 555 passengers in first class, business and economy cabins. A 747 laid out the same way seats 416.

* An all-economy class A380 could seat 853 passengers versus 568 for a 747.

* Cocktail bars, billiard rooms, showers, libraries and sleeping quarters for staff tucked under the floorboards are among the novel ways airlines could use the A380's space.
Impressive airplane!
Alex

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
New And the insurance companies are in a cold sweat.
They remember all too well their first 747 payout was for two full planes, and a lot sooner than they expected.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Airports, too.
I wonder how many will need expensive upgrades to fit 'em in.

Actually, I wonder how much runway it needs. I know a fully laden 747 only just clears the ILS and localiser beacons at Kingsford-Smith on takeoff. And it's not known to be a short runway, either.

Wade.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

New Just a few to begin with.
* Airports gearing up for the plane include London's Heathrow, New York's John F. Kennedy International, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Singapore and Frankfurt.
and from Reuters [link|http://yahoo.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7340414|here]:
LONDON (Reuters) - When passengers board the giant A380 aircraft at London's Heathrow for the first time next year they will be leaving a noticeably different airport.

In the biggest single change to operations since the Boeing 747 was introduced in 1970, the airport is spending $841 million widening taxiways, installing double-decker loading ramps and upgrading immigration and baggage facilities.

The arrival of the world's largest passenger plane means airports like Heathrow, already operating under congested conditions, are under pressure to ensure they can turn around up to double the number of passengers from a single aircraft in the same time.

Two huge air bridges, one of which is around eight floors off the ground, will connect the double-decker Airbus aircraft's 550 passengers with the terminal building.

Heathrow will also offer airlines the option of a third gangway, two on the lower deck and one upstairs, although airlines will have to subsidize that extra themselves.

Like the plane's interior, everything in the terminal building will be larger as well. Heathrow is building bigger lounges and extending baggage carousels to ensure passengers are not delayed any longer than usual.

Heathrow will be in the first wave of major hubs hosting the A380 and is racing against the clock to prepare for its giant guest next year.
Alex

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
New Photos linky.
[link|http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-airbus0118pg,0,6317779.photogallery?coll=ny-homepage-big-pix&index=1|Here] at Newsday. It's a gallery of 7 pictures.

It'll be interesting if it's the 21st Century Concorde, or another sign of flagging dominance by the US in commercial aircraft.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Pictures 2, 3 & 4 mislabled
They're all supposed to read: "Views of the Airbus that no one you know will ever see."
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Somehow.. the prospect of remembering , with two
auditoria full of screaming people -- remembering to conclude one's inner dialogue with, Rama Rama Rama ... seems scant.


I'll pass.. (betcha the sucker'll have 14.25" seats too)
New I'm sure they have to be able to evacuate it in 90 s too...
New Well, maybe.
* The A380 has 16 passenger doors and escape slides on both decks, with the upper slides standing 8 metres high.
I wonder how many doors will be used in normal boarding and unloading?
Alex

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
New I wonder what the wake turbulence will be like.
I also wonder about the need for such an aircraft given that so many flights are cancelled because there aren't enough passengers to pay for gas. I'm gonna hafta look up the tech specs on that thing - I'll bet they're impressive.

And, any wagers on how long until the first one is fitted for cargo?
bcnu,
Mikem

Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
(Just trying to be accepted in the New America)
New FedEx and UPS are customers.
[link|http://www.airbus.com/media/airbus_freighters.asp|http://www.airbus.co...us_freighters.asp]

Cheers,
Scott.
New Yikes!
The A380F, will can lift a payload of 330,000 lbs with a full fuel load. Flying over 10,400 km./5,600 nm.

And other Versions are yet to come that are LONGER for more Cargo space and Shorter for more payload weight capacity.

Right now the C5 Galaxy can only lift a payload of 204,904 lbs with a full fuel load. And Flying only about 2,650 nm (without dipping into emergency reserve)

Does anyone see the possibilities here? Sure the A400M is a new Cargo Freighter... but only the Equivalent of a C140.

Hmm.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Miltary Intelligence"]
No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
New Why.. you could take a Regiment all the way to N. Korea
New And one SAM would eliminate said regiment.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
New The Stealth A380 is planned for Version 2.0.
;-j

Cheers,
Scott.
New You!

Sillies...!
New Re: Why.. you could take a Regiment all the way to N. Korea
I'd just like to say that I work on the 380 wings at Aerospace in Broughton, UK. It is an impressive piece of engineering.
New Welcome! Tell us more.
Any composites used? How does it compare (in any way you'd like) to the [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spruce_Goose|H-4 Hercules]?

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: Welcome! Tell us more.
As far as I'm aware the A380 is about 25% composites in total. Don't ask me the exact make up, I'm just an electrical grease monkey. The wing itself feels very slick to the touch, more than the 330. A comparison with the Hercules? I don't I can make any meaningful comparison. I've never been inside a Herc. (Come to that, I've never been inside a 380 - yet)
New I assume this is fly-by-wire.
Can you turn it off in this model? Or is it like the A320's and you can't?

(I could look this up, perhaps, but hey, we've got an expert! And add my WELCOME! to the bunch).
bcnu,
Mikem

Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
(Just trying to be accepted in the New America)
New Re: I assume this is fly-by-wire.
Yes, it is. The FBW system is operational 100% of the time with high redundancy. The hydraulics look a little different too.
Apparently, talking to one of my aircraft obsessive workmates, the original A380 FBW system had to be degraded. It was working too well, you could lose power from one of the engines and the cabin crew wouldn't know about it, so they programmed it to add some slippage.
New That's what I'd guessed.
I just got my Private license about 2.5 years ago and have talked about FBW technology that you "can't turn off" quite a bit with other PPSEL's through ATPs. The consensus was that FBW was great, but all of us agreed that it should be implemented on Boeing's model - the PIC can turn it off.

I'm geniunely not trying to tick you off. But I am very curious if there ever has been any debate with Airbus that you're aware of concerning adding the PIC's ability to shut off the FBW?

I guess what scares me and the other pilots I've spoken to is stuff like this:
[link|http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/lh2904/photo.shtml|http://www.airdisast...h2904/photo.shtml]

DLH 2904 flight from Frankfurt to Warsaw progressed normally until Warsaw Okecie TWR warned the crew that windshear exists on approach to RWY 11, as reported by DLH 5764, that had just landed. According to Flight Manual instructions PF used increased approach speed and with this speed touched down on RWY 11 in Okecie aerodrome. Very light touch of the runway surface with the landing gear and lack of compression of the left landing gear leg to the extent understood by the aircraft computer as the actual landing resulted in delayed deployment of spoilers and thrust reversers. Delay was about 9 seconds. Thus the braking commenced with delay and in condition of heavy rain and strong tailwind (storm front passed through aerodrome area at that time) aircraft did not stop on runway.

In effect of the crash one crew member and one of the passengers lost their lives. The aircraft sustained damage caused by fire.


[link|http://sunnyday.mit.edu/accidents/warsaw-report.html|http://sunnyday.mit....arsaw-report.html]

There are more, of course, like the Lufthansa flight in the clouds on final where the first officer thought he keyed in -3.5 degrees and what he actually keyed in was -3,500/min descent. They broke through the clouds at 1,000 agl, both pilot and first officer yanked the stick back but nothing happened because the computer decided that was "too much input" and instead nicely rounded it out into the ground and killed all on board.

bcnu,
Mikem

Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
(Just trying to be accepted in the New America)
New Re: That's what I'd guessed.
>I'm geniunely not trying to tick you off. But I am very curious if there ever has >been any debate with Airbus that you're aware of concerning adding the PIC's >ability to shut off the FBW?

I really don't know. As I said in a previous post, I'm just a grease monkey. I leave the clever sods to concentrate on design and safety issues, while I concentrate on not falling off a four storey high wing jig. :)
New ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem

Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
(Just trying to be accepted in the New America)
New There's only one H-4 Hercules. :-) 3 images.
It's also known as the "Spruce Goose".

[link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spruce_Goose#Specifications|H-4 Hercules]:

[image|http://commons.wikimedia.org/upload/thumb/4/4c/300px-H-4_Hercules_2.jpg|0|Hughes H-4 Hercules|214|300]

General characteristics

* Wingspan: 319 ft 11 in (97.54 m)
* Length: 218 ft 8 in (66.65 m)
* Height: 79 ft 4 in (24.18 m)
* Fuselage height: Approx. 30 ft (9.1 m)
* Engines: 8 \ufffd Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major, 3,000 hp (2.2 MW) each
* Propellers: 8 \ufffd four-bladed Hamilton Standard, diameter 17 ft 2 in (5.23 m)

Performance (projected)

* Intended cruising speed: Approx. 200 mph (320 km/h)
* Intended maximum range: Approx. 3,000 miles (4,800 km)
* Intended endurance (cruise): 20.9 h
* Intended service ceiling: 20,900 ft (6,370 m)


[link|http://www.pbs.org/kcet/chasingthesun/planes/a380.html#specifications|A380]:

[image|http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1390000/images/_1393390_300parisairshow3.jpg|0|A380 Mockup in Paris|280|380]

SPECIFICATIONS
Manufacturer \tAirbus
First Flight: \tSeptember 1, 2004
Wingspan: \t261 feet, 10 inches
Length: \t239 feet, 6 inches
Height: \t79 feet, 1 inch
Weight: \t606,000 pounds (empty)
Top Speed: \t652 miles per hour
Cruising Speed: \t630 miles per hour
Flight Altitude: \t43,000 feet
Range: \t8,000 miles
Engines: \t4 engines Rolls-Royce Trent 900 or Engine Alliance
Passenger
Accommodations: \t555 passengers


They're obviously quite different. The H-4 still has the longest wingspan. The [link|http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/transport-m/an225/|An-225] has the largest wingspan of the modern jets (88.4 m = 290 feet):

[image|http://www.globalaircraft.org/photos/planephotos/an-225-1.jpg|0|An-225|324"|480]

It must be fun to work on such a unique project as the A380.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Sweet...
Now we gots the AeroSpace mIndustry here... TOO!

Awesome.

Meets and Greets required!
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Miltary Intelligence"]
No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
New Re: Sweet...
Thanks for the greet Folkert
New wow! welcome!!
now is there any design functions of the wings different or is it a case of lighter and bigger.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
New Re: wow! welcome!!
Mainly lighter and bigger. The internal structure has changed slightly, but nothing drastic. And as I said before, the wing is smoother, not just to the touch, but when you look at it you can see there are less rivets. Transportation is the biggest change, we fly the A330 wings out to France on a Beluga from the nearby airport. The 380's have to be driven on a monster 100 wheel trailer to the nearest dock, and then loaded onto a specially built barge to cross to the Continent.
New Hail, fellow Brit. (new thread)
Created as new thread #190977 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=190977|Hail, fellow Brit.]


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Does anyone see the possibilities here?
Yep, flying computer parts from Taiwan directly to Michigan. :)
Alex

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
New Might get ahead of the demand.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Miltary Intelligence"]
No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
New Assembly line show and tell
Search engines are dangerous :) Someone left a PPT on the Airbus webserver. It looks like it was part of the presentation package used to round up customers. Whoever made it fell for the old "Powerpoint shrinks my images" gag, so if you pry them loose, they're really good. Some nice shots of the laser welders and wing assembly rings in there.

Interesting tidbit: the wing skin assembler can accommodate pieces up to 136m. A390 anyone?

The whole thing is 10.5 MB. I've extracted the photos to JPGs. If there's anyone else interested I can roll them up and post them someplace.

[link|http://www.airbus.com/pdf/media/a380manufacturing.ppt|http://www.airbus.co...manufacturing.ppt]
New Neat. Thanks. The twiki might be a good spot.
New Up under OpenForum
New 'Ask the Pilot' (Salon) on the 380
[link|http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2005/01/21/askthepilot120/| here]. On Page 2
Ask the pilot
Why the biggest airplane ever is not such a huge deal, really. Also, big news for New York-Lagos commuters.


- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Patrick Smith

[. . .]

You're probably wondering about the A380, the new Airbus \ufffdberjumbo rolled out to much fanfare this week in Toulouse, France. Baseline model of the double-decked behemoth will have legs for about 8,000 nautical miles. Naturally, perhaps, first in line for the A380 is Singapore Airlines. Initial deployment will be to London and Sydney in the second quarter of 2006.

Regulars to these pages know of my ambivalence toward the A380, and the much-awaited uncurtaining ceremony was something I'd anticipated with equal measures of excitement and clenched teeth. First and foremost the plane is [link|http://www.airliners.net/open.file/760641/M/|ugly] -- a ponderous giant with none of the elegance of the Boeing 747, the airliner it will soon supplant as world's biggest after a 35-year reign. And while the A380's assorted superlatives and technological innovations are certainly worthy of marvel -- it will be the first civil transport with a gross maximum takeoff weight exceeding a million pounds -- accolades like "milestone" and "revolutionary" are undue.

When the 747 debuted with Pan Am in 1970, it was over twice the size of its largest existing competitors, the single-aisle Douglas DC-8 and Boeing 707, and was able to carry three times the number of passengers. By comparison the A380 will outlift the 747-400, its closest rival, by only about 30 percent, over roughly equal distances. It has \ufffda tail as tall as a seven-story building," gushed an Associated Press reporter from the party in Toulouse. Incredible, yes. And but one story taller than the 64-foot fin of the 747. Unlike the venerable Boeing, or for that matter the Concorde, there's nothing so fundamentally radical about the A380.

The plane's most impressive aspects aren't its girth and power but its architecture and onboard systems. With dual auxiliary power units and multiple fail-safe components, Airbus has built an aircraft almost guaranteed never to cancel or divert. With several hundred passengers aboard and a limited number of airports able to accept A380 operations, nearly perfect reliability will be crucial.

Those airport restrictions, by the way, are mainly a function of logistics -- gate and terminal space, loading equipment, etc. -- and not runway limits. The ship's average landing speed will be no different from that of the A320 (about 145 knots), a fifth of its size, and under most conditions will require less runway than a 747.

A typical three-class arrangement offers seating for approximately 540 people, and fuselage mockups have proposed extravagances like bars, duty-free boutiques and nurseries. Such frills, argue cynics, are bound to go the way of those piano lounges found in the upper decks of the original 747, destined to be swapped out for additional rows of seats. (An all-economy A380 would have room for 800 passengers, versus about 580 for the highest-density version of the 747.)

Chances are that's overly pessimistic, for the trend these days is toward increasingly swanky perks, particularly in the premium cabins. The 747 emerged in a time when flights rarely exceeded about nine hours\ufffd duration. With 14-, 15-, even 18-hour trips now commonplace, the art of perfecting long-haul satisfaction needs a higher, more permanent standard. Boutiques and spas may be wishful thinking, but in an era when fully flat sleepers have become de rigueur even in business class, you can expect luxurious, cutting-edge amenities in the forward rows, and a modicum of improvements in the back as well. Economy is planned as a 10-abreast layout, just as one encounters on 747s. With a cabin width about 13 inches greater overall, that gives the traveler 1.3 additional inches per seat.

[. . .]
New Teehee
He just sounds sore that FRENCH PEOPLE made a bigger plane than HONEST AMERICANS.

</jingo>


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Maybe the FBW thing is for those French pilots ...
who can't fly as well as ours.

[image|/forums/images/warning.png|0|This is sarcasm...]

bcnu,
Mikem

Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
(Just trying to be accepted in the New America)
New Oh, yippee, one-point-three whole *inches*! Feh...
     "Airbus A380 doubledecker plane" - (a6l6e6x) - (38)
         And the insurance companies are in a cold sweat. - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
             Airports, too. - (static) - (1)
                 Just a few to begin with. - (a6l6e6x)
         Photos linky. - (Another Scott) - (1)
             Pictures 2, 3 & 4 mislabled - (drewk)
         Somehow.. the prospect of remembering , with two - (Ashton) - (2)
             I'm sure they have to be able to evacuate it in 90 s too... -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                 Well, maybe. - (a6l6e6x)
         I wonder what the wake turbulence will be like. - (mmoffitt) - (22)
             FedEx and UPS are customers. - (Another Scott) - (21)
                 Yikes! - (folkert) - (20)
                     Why.. you could take a Regiment all the way to N. Korea -NT - (Ashton) - (17)
                         And one SAM would eliminate said regiment. -NT - (jbrabeck) - (2)
                             The Stealth A380 is planned for Version 2.0. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                 You! - (Ashton)
                         Re: Why.. you could take a Regiment all the way to N. Korea - (saganista) - (13)
                             Welcome! Tell us more. - (Another Scott) - (7)
                                 Re: Welcome! Tell us more. - (saganista) - (6)
                                     I assume this is fly-by-wire. - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                         Re: I assume this is fly-by-wire. - (saganista) - (3)
                                             That's what I'd guessed. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                 Re: That's what I'd guessed. - (saganista) - (1)
                                                     ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                     There's only one H-4 Hercules. :-) 3 images. - (Another Scott)
                             Sweet... - (folkert) - (1)
                                 Re: Sweet... - (saganista)
                             wow! welcome!! - (daemon) - (1)
                                 Re: wow! welcome!! - (saganista)
                             Hail, fellow Brit. (new thread) - (pwhysall)
                     Does anyone see the possibilities here? - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                         Might get ahead of the demand. -NT - (folkert)
         Assembly line show and tell - (scoenye) - (2)
             Neat. Thanks. The twiki might be a good spot. -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                 Up under OpenForum -NT - (scoenye)
         'Ask the Pilot' (Salon) on the 380 - (Ashton) - (3)
             Teehee - (pwhysall) - (1)
                 Maybe the FBW thing is for those French pilots ... - (mmoffitt)
             Oh, yippee, one-point-three whole *inches*! Feh... -NT - (CRConrad)

Not that I'd ever eat a fish that was lured to WD-40, but hey...
157 ms