Post #187,910
12/22/04 11:57:00 PM
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..bet your sweet Bippy__May cast some light too, on recent
phenomena. (Aside from the legions of other absurdities, the obv insanity of much of what has transpired on the mere daily pedestrian plane, since the Village Idiot got to run the village.. I mean.)
Anyone noticed the increasing . . . frequency with which mature women retain that hi-pitched Valley Guhl er elocution? ie speaking with little-mouse voice - as comes from the throat (and not the diaphragm) [?]
Perhaps this influx of alpha particles, however few, at ~1/cm\ufffd - is sufficient impetus, metaphorically causing emulation of the sounds of someone breathing Helium, then 'speaking'.
Could Be 'Why' 'things' happen - is such a crap shoot, even in saner times.
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Post #187,911
12/23/04 12:20:44 AM
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You'd love Japan.
It seems that people there expect sales women and hawkers to have extremely high voices. Painfully high in some cases. [link|http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:8kf_WY3u_OoJ:www.lotpublications.nl/publish/articles/000025/bookpart.pdf+japanese+women+high-pitch+voice&hl=en|Apparently], men there have a cultural bias toward women with very high voices - perceived servility is a virtue in sales to the public: Characteristics of the voice stress the femininity and/or masculinity of speakers. For instance, a woman who speaks with a high, smooth, husky, slow, and soft voice consciously or unconsciously projects another gender image than a woman who speaks with a low, rough, fast, and loud voice. Margaret Thatcher is supposed to have had speech therapy to lower her voice, in order to sound more authoritative and less feminine. Previous research shows that voice quality variation has a strong effect on the way listeners perceive the personality of speakers. Van Bezooijen (1995) studied gender associations of listeners while they were listening to voices. She found that Dutch and Japanese female speakers are perceived as shorter, weaker, more dependent, and more modest when speaking at a high pitch than when speaking at a low pitch. It was one thing that I could not get used to in my visit there a few years ago. At one quick noodle restaurant in Tokyo there was a woman employee who sounded like a herd of cats running on chalkboards being attacked with chainsaws. :-( In other words, it can always be worse. ;-) Cheers, Scott.
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Post #188,024
12/23/04 7:39:31 PM
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I've noticed in anime.
In the English dub of Gunsmith Cats, the voice of Ralley's companion is reasonably high. In the Japanese original, she's at least an octave higher.
Wade.
Is it enough to love Is it enough to breathe Somebody rip my heart out And leave me here to bleed
| | Is it enough to die Somebody save my life I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #188,054
12/23/04 10:56:45 PM
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I've also noticed it in ... umm ... nevermind.
-- Chris Altmann
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Post #188,069
12/24/04 1:23:12 AM
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You da Master info sleuth --
Apparently the aim is more overt (and more investigated) in Japan, as your perspicuous find sets out. I suspect it's much more an unconscious peer-group automatic thing around here, (and I haven't been to Japan).
Obv Doctor Doolittle Lives.. and has been exceeded in punctiliousness by orders of magnitude. I am amazed, each time - at the quantity of new tech terms required to distinguish -'logically'- that which a listening emotional-brain can parse instantly. (I know someone with such talents/obsession? Lots has been catalogued - of which most of us aren't even dimly aware. I may pass this on to him.) 'Sociolinguistics' - the mind boggles with a soup of stat/intellectual VS intuitive cognition.
One might notice this phenom in recordings of samisen + voice, but it hadn't occurred to me at all - the social freight involved. This despite knowing of foot binding! We should realize just how much homo-sap genes {surely must} overlap with the chameleon.
In that vein - it appears that we have a nation of p\ufffddophiles. What a Surprise. cf. Puritan and there's enough material for a thesis at any established Web-University. Or an MA in HR?
Thanks - for YAN enigma of the footbinding plane.
moi
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Post #188,268
12/27/04 11:40:51 AM
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After reading Brin's piece...
...about [link|http://www.davidbrin.com/neotenyarticle1.html|neoteny], a friend of mine and I discussed a possible abberation that fell outside of his theory - which is why Japan (and some other asian cultures) place such a premium on childlike behavior in their sexual politics. Our conclusion was that in extremely regimented societies, where individuality and rebellion are suppressed to a great extent, a pre-teen attitude of unswerving obedience becomes a desired trait - and other traits that go with that become attractive from a sociological perspective, overriding any instinctual behaviors that may be there.
Thus enter the cult of the schoolgirl. :P
"Here at Ortillery Command we have at our disposal hundred megawatt laser beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his 'SMITE' button for our fire control system."
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Post #188,351
12/27/04 7:48:04 PM
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Tilt.
Yah, Brin's more than a silver-tongued orator.. why, he makes neologisms almost acceptable, since he explains what *he* means, invariably. As to a pre-teen attitude of unswerving obedience Well ... we know that is what parents Want to inculcate (for their convenience? - nahh, for respite, often pure survival from their daily love/hate nurture/Kill! experience of the mood swings of their fledglings, each of whom Knows He Knows more, at 16+ than his clod-parents ever will. And behaves as disdainfully, while not actually honing Cruelty 101.) Sorry but.. I just can't readily pluck out many samples of those who really bought the Koolaid -- (though in my case, for there being Fundies about - it was certainly understood that Sincerity was All. We each could fake that pretty well). A perspicuous closing observation, methinks.. Compassion is the trait we may be most proud of. Ironically, it can have come from nowhere else than the bizarre story of our ancestors' competition for reproductive success.moi Now if you want some comic relief, a glimpse of how the Aristocratic Class (here, from the Mother country) is wont to go about Unnatural Selection: check out Regency House Party on your local subscribed-to PBS station or website. Dunno how widespread the distro though; I have to get it from a San Jose sta. which regularly chooses/pays beyond PBS National menus, for good stuff. [Blake's 7, Sandbaggers, Dr. Who over many years.. now doing Red Dwarf followed by Hitchhiker, on Sun. PMs] It's a Hoot. But at least folks learn how to dance, how to move with grace and how to schmooze with a little more engaging repartee than.. Hey, wanna fuck?
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Post #188,363
12/28/04 12:33:07 AM
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Obedience to *whom*, Ash
Why, to the right other teens. Duh.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #187,915
12/23/04 2:01:20 AM
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Influence from beyond the stars or the center of everything?
...that last amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the centre of all infinity\ufffdthe boundless daemon-sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin, monotonous whine of accursed flutes...
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning, As hopeless as it seems in the middle, Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #187,922
12/23/04 7:18:56 AM
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Now__now
1) Burn those rap records; they be bad for calm disposition in times of clinical madness throughout the Power-pyramid.
2) Shub Niggurath, Cthulhu et al.. will take care of the sissy flutists. [Just as J. Galway took care of that sissy flautist spelling]
Sic transit, Gloria - on Monday maybe.. if Shrub decides to take on Putin, with another pipsqueak - bring. it. on. cha cha cha
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Post #188,012
12/23/04 6:27:19 PM
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simple answer there
not as many girls are growing up to be women. Perhaps you miss the fishwifery of your yout when wimmens bellowed with a scratchy husky drawl at volumes that would make an Abu Girab prisoner wince. regards, daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #188,065
12/24/04 12:55:39 AM
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Can stop at the first sentence - prolly close enough.
But it isn't about VOLUME or fishwifery and other loaded stuff. There is such a thing as a mellifluous voice and it's not gender specific. (Think, Sinatra.) The mature female voice is apt to be an alto, even among those who have the capacity to sing as soprano.
What I am hearing is, as you suggest -- simply, immaturity. Held onto for ___ whatever social- Pop- 'reason', most likely completely unconsciously. (But then, 'unconscious' has never been so socially-approved as today.)
moi
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