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New Incorrect assumption.
"with verdict decided in advance, just a method for getting said verdict on the record in a relatively systematic way."

Isn't there something about "secret" in the secret military tribunal?

"Wrong... they told me in boot camp, and it matches my experience: If you're innocent, you want a court-martial. If you're guilty, you want a civilian trial."

Let's see, lies I was told at boot camp. When were you court marshalled and for what offense?

"Brandioch, it's fortunate for you that dueling is two centuries in the past."

I'll take anyone up on that. At any time. I'm in Seattle. Meet me here. I choose swords.

"If you are gonna accuse serving military officers of that kind of misbehavior -- when the _record_ is that even when they make mistakes, they're also making sincere attempts at fairness -- you'd be wise not to do it in any venue where (1) military officers abound and (2) the furniture has useful ballistic properties."

You'd be wise to challenge someone who hasn't faced such "officers" in his military career.

When I was a PFC, I was investigated by such an officer because I hit another truck with my truck in our motor pool.
The investigating officer didn't even bother to look at the scene and the case was dismissed when it was shown that his hand drawn map of the incident did not match the layout of the motor pool.

SSgt, investigated when a Sp4 under me called the base hot line on racial prejudice and complained that I was mistreating him because I wasn't putting him in for promotion. The investigating officer completely failed to question the Sergeant Major who sat on the board and said that Sp4 was in no way ready for promotion.

In other words, the officers in the military are there because they have college degrees.

Not because they are paragons of virtue or justice or anything else.

They are as ignorant as the rest of the population.

In fact, in many cases I'd say they are more ignorant as they cannot get better paying jobs on the outside.

We had a Sp4 roll a jeep on the way to 3rd shop because his platoon leader didn't see a problem with him pulling guard duty all night and then driving 4 hours the next day.

We had another platoon leader order his driver to drive a CUCV down a frozen hill in German. Right into a water truck. The CUCV was totalled.

And so on and so forth and on and on and on.

Anyone who thinks officers are any better than anyone else needs to re-examine his belief system.

The good news is that anyone stupid enough to believe in the superiority of military officers is too stupid to be a viable physical threat to me.

Anyone wishing to prove differently, email me and I'll send you my address. Swords.
New [Completely OT]I might have to take you up on that...
I've got some boffers, I'm in the right area, wanna go head-to-head some time? ^_^
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New Sure.
Sword and shield?

Gasworks park okay with you? The SCA does fighter practice there, also. :)
New E-mail me.
a-thanew
at
theevilempire.com (not the actual final address, but I'm sure you can figure it out. :) )
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New No challenges here
at least with edged weapons.

Military officers are human beings: cruel and kind, honest and venal, and all the other possibilities. Paragons? No.

For the record, I've never been court-martialed; I've had friends go through the experience, two of which I was closely involved with. The guilty one got jail time; the innocent one walked. The few civil trials I've had direct knowledge of didn't have any such proportionality involved -- for the most part, they turned into jousting matches between debating teams, with the result directly proportional to the amount of money the defendant had to spend on counsel. Purely anecdotal evidence, granted without argument; but it does dispose me to be rather more tolerant of military officers than you seem to be.

The one thing that does disturb me about the "military tribunals" notion is that they'll seemingly be here, and staffed with REMFs more like your described experience than actual serving-in-the-field officers. That does make the notion less attractive; on the other hand, I've never seen anything about the position of judge, prosecutor, attorney, etc. that implied any sort of Divine gift of rationality.

So if I, in my travels -- and I do fit a few of the guidelines -- run into problems and get hauled before a "military tribunal", I'll take my chances with a relatively light heart, at least compared to facing equal charges with nothing between me and Leavenworth but a court-appointed post-teen-age hack. OK?
Regards,
Ric
     War is hell (on your civil liberties) - (Silverlock) - (32)
         I can't tell yet whether - (Ashton) - (1)
             The scarier. - (Steve Lowe)
         Hell on whose civil liberties? - (marlowe) - (23)
             Let's say you're Arab-looking US-citiz. Someone sez ___. -NT - (Ashton) - (15)
                 Let's say you're grasping at straws. - (marlowe) - (14)
                     Let's say you're too young to *remember* HUAC, SISS. -NT - (Ashton) - (1)
                         I haven't forgotten all that. Nor have I forgotten... - (marlowe)
                     Alternative to what? - (Brandioch) - (11)
                         Oh, please. - (marlowe) - (10)
                             No, wait a minute. - (Ric Locke) - (5)
                                 Incorrect assumption. - (Brandioch) - (4)
                                     [Completely OT]I might have to take you up on that... - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                                         Sure. - (Brandioch) - (1)
                                             E-mail me. - (inthane-chan)
                                     No challenges here - (Ric Locke)
                             They didn't get a fair trial? - (Brandioch) - (3)
                                 You deliberately misunderstand, because you know you've lost - (marlowe) - (2)
                                     Maybe you have a problem understanding me? - (Brandioch)
                                     Ah.. I begin to understand your larger problem. - (Ashton)
             But the question is... - (Simon_Jester) - (4)
                 The postmodernist dodge rides again! - (marlowe) - (3)
                     Marlowe...I hope you're right. - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                         I like that link. - (marlowe)
                     Uh... Look a bit up-thread, to... - (CRConrad)
             Way to miss the point. - (Silverlock)
             Q: Hell on whose civil liberties? A: Mine - (neelk)
         the fear factor - (andread) - (2)
             "Close enough for government work". In Ashcroft-2001 Times. -NT - (Ashton)
             Damn. I actually agree with you on something. - (Brandioch)
         Another article. - (Brandioch) - (2)
             Where does Safire lie on the political scale? - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                 He was one of Nixon's speech writers. - (Another Scott)

Maybe this is what seafood will do in a thousand years.
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