Post #184,101
11/15/04 12:09:05 PM
11/15/04 12:11:33 PM
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Doing the Digital Camera thinger... Advice?
Yeah, I know I am taking the plunge.
Based on what I see, the [link|http://www.pentaximaging.com/products/product_details?reqID=1006|Pentax Optio750Z] fits my bill quite well. At under [link|http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?sort_type=bottomline&masterid=3893019&isbn=&pid=|Under $450 US] (needs you zip code to give best shipping) seems to a good buy. Uses Secure Digital Cards for storage (and CompUSA(I think) had 1GB SD card for $69)
Also I get to have a [link|http://www.pentaximaging.com/files/scms_docs/Summer%202004%20Digital%20Updated.pdf|$50 Rebate (pdf)] which will bring the price down to under $400 US, which is AWESOME. (Well at least I thought it was a $50 Rebate... it is NONE... shucks)
Any other deals anyone can find that are better?
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Edited by folkert
Nov. 15, 2004, 12:11:33 PM EST
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Post #184,104
11/15/04 12:30:48 PM
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The prices on PriceGrabber seem to be old.
B&H is usually quite competitive but not the absolute cheapest. I've bought a lot of stuff from them, sold them some used equipment, and have been happy with them.
They want [link|http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=348425&is=REG|$500] while PriceGrabber lists them as $600 for the 750Z. It may be that other sites have lower prices as well.
Check [link|http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Optio+750Z&hl=en&lr=&tab=wf&pid=4701738945615954726|Froogle] too.
Be sure you're getting a US (or equivalent) warranty. Lots of places sell cameras without a US warranty and thus charge less for them.
Check out [link|http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Pentax/pentax_optio750z.asp|DP Review] for some information on it and 3 reviews from owners.
Luck! HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #184,107
11/15/04 12:49:22 PM
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You just confirmed my choice of vendors.
[link|http://www2.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?ref=pricegrabber&sku=PKOPT750Z|Buydig] as an affiliate member of the [link|http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Pentax/pentax_optio750z.asp|Website you mentioned for review]
B&H seems very good for most people... but I just can't see spending another $60.
Thanks for your input though. The reviews are what I needed to see as well.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
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Post #184,105
11/15/04 12:38:46 PM
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Are you into wall murals? :)
That's just about what 7 megapixels will get you. It's overkill for most purposes.
[link|http://www.imaging-resource.com/|Here is a good reference site] for digital cameras. There are a fair number of reviews, but not for the latest and greatest you've picked. Closest is the one for [link|http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/O550/O55A.HTM|Pentax Optio 550]. Note that is good for prints over 8x10 inches in size.
My only thought is you should (and you did) stick with a companies that make film cameras as well (vs. say Sony or HP). They will have had no learning curve with the optics.
Alex
In politics, what begins in fear usually ends in folly. -- Samuel Taylor Coleridge, poet (1772-1834)
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Post #184,106
11/15/04 12:48:51 PM
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Pentax makes SLR 35MM and Portrait cameras.
Have for a good long time too. Also they do medical imaging as well. (endo-scopes and microscopes) plus they do Printers and a few other things.
Yeah, I was looking at the 555. For just about the same price I can get the 750Z. And yes, I want MURALS. Some of the reviews I have just been reading say these cameras are GREAT upto 13x19 prints. Exactly what I wanted... Overkill.
Also, 3 reviews I have read so far, say that the 750Z has been made with Experienced Photographers in mind.
Thanks for your 50 cents...
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
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Post #184,109
11/15/04 1:00:41 PM
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Yep, I've oogled Pentax SLR 35MM cameras back in the 1950s.
Alex
In politics, what begins in fear usually ends in folly. -- Samuel Taylor Coleridge, poet (1772-1834)
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Post #184,115
11/15/04 1:55:01 PM
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Not about print size
It's about cropping. If the max resolution of a camera would be enough for am 8x10, what do I do if my intended subject doesn't fill the frame? Sure, this is better solved with a longer lens and better framing while shooting. But sometimes that's not an option. Overkill is good.
BTW I would personally prefer the longer lens to the higher resolution. 3x zoom sucks. Two criteria for my next camera: longer lens and faster focus.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #184,112
11/15/04 1:33:21 PM
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The deed is done.
In 7-10 business days I'll be the proud owner of a Pentax Optio750Z.
We shall see how it measures upto the Optio555 of Scott's.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
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Post #184,114
11/15/04 1:49:17 PM
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Ah, I see, geek oneupmanship
Nobody is allowed to own cooler toys than you!
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #184,116
11/15/04 2:17:42 PM
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No, *this* is one-upsmanship
[link|http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/gigapixel.htm|http://www.tawbaware...ons/gigapixel.htm]
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #184,120
11/15/04 2:59:40 PM
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Wow!
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Post #184,123
11/15/04 3:13:08 PM
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No, that's just silly
Besides which, Greg will have a cooler toy, that camera was only 6 megapixels...
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #184,279
11/16/04 7:37:04 PM
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Oh, yeh? :)
[link|http://www.tpd.tno.nl/smartsite966.html|The 2.5 gigapixel photo]. TNO has produced the largest digital panoramic photo in the world. So, what do we mean by large? After all, modern consumer cameras can easily take a picture with 5 million pixels. Well, we are talking about a photo of completely different dimensions. One with 2.5 billion pixels - that's 500 times more pixels. If this photo were printed, it would measure 6.67 m by 2.67 m (300 dpi). The photograph shows Delft and its surroundings in the autumn of 2004. It was taken the top of the Electrical Engineering faculty of Delft University, at a height of about 100 m, by TNO. What's neat is that you can zoom in on this picture. Alex
In politics, what begins in fear usually ends in folly. -- Samuel Taylor Coleridge, poet (1772-1834)
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Post #184,280
11/16/04 8:28:56 PM
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Movie time
There is a long multi-story building coming in from the right side of the photo, near the bottom. There are cars in the lot in front of it. You can zoom in and read the license plates.
I guess now we know what software they use in all those movies.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #187,189
12/16/04 11:48:00 AM
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Interesting
If you look hard enough, you can see where one image ended and another began. In most places, it's just where the shadows don't match up. In one spot I saw a guy walking across the street, but his feet were cut off, and you can see a car in the lower frame that had just driven from where the guy was walking.
But it's definately interesting looking around that picture
~~~)-Steven----
"I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country..."
General George S. Patton
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Post #184,119
11/15/04 2:31:01 PM
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Yeah, but I'll still be able to kick his ass
...at UT2K4 :-)
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
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Post #184,121
11/15/04 3:03:42 PM
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Nope.
Mine has a better zoom on it. ;-)
It's a nice camera, either way. He won't be disappointed.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #184,124
11/15/04 3:14:53 PM
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Yup
Not only is it one-upmanship, but you've just fired the classic return salvo, pointing out the ways in which your drab, older toy is better than the expensive new toy. :-P
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #184,125
11/15/04 3:30:53 PM
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Sadly...
His costs less than mine did. :-P
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #184,128
11/15/04 3:36:02 PM
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So what you're saying is ...
His may be better, but at least you paid more.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #184,132
11/15/04 4:21:44 PM
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Alternatively:
You can buy better, but you can't pay more.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #184,141
11/15/04 5:49:11 PM
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Moore strikes again! :-P
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #184,135
11/15/04 4:31:33 PM
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5X Optical Zoom, 8X Digital Zoom. Buddy.
40X Total.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
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Post #184,136
11/15/04 4:40:51 PM
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Does digital count?
I mean, couldn't you do the same thing in the Gimp?
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #184,139
11/15/04 4:56:32 PM
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Re: Does digital count?
Yeah, but where's the willy-waving fun in that?
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
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Post #184,679
11/21/04 6:13:45 AM
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Depends on the kind of Gimp...
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
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Post #184,681
11/21/04 9:30:09 AM
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Ouch.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
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Post #184,145
11/15/04 6:43:21 PM
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5x? Zzzzz.
[link|http://www.samsung.com/common/microsite/Miniket/swf/Miniket_main.htm|http://www.samsung.c.../Miniket_main.htm]
(Flash)
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Post #184,147
11/15/04 7:15:01 PM
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Camcorders are different.
I've got an old Canon Hi8 camcorder that has 22x optical Zoom (440x total).
Note that the Miniket only does stills at 800x600.
It looks like a nice toy, but it's no competition for a 7 MP camera. :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #184,177
11/15/04 8:40:32 PM
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Yeah, why is that?
Try to find a digital still camera with >10X optical zoom. You're into kilo-bucks before you get close.[1] But Digital camcorders had the >20 back when I was looking, and you could get that for ~$600-$700. I know the ccd is smaller/cheaper on a camcorder, and the final resolution is lower, but it's also got lots more moving parts.
Looking at the hardware, it seems to me you should be able[2] to take a digital camcorder body -- with its 22X optical zoom, dynamic image stabalizer, etc. -- attach a larger ccd to the back, and put the batteries and card reader where the tape and drive motor used to go.
The only reason I can come up with that this hasn't happened is that the camera manufacturers are trying to get us to upgrade every two years for the next 20. If they give us what they could make, for a price that would still make them a profit this year, I would have a 5MP with 22X optical zoom and 1G storage card, and wouldn't need a new camera for 10-15 years. This is what we used to expect from decent SLRs. They seem to have learned their lesson.
[1] Okay, I haven't looked for ~1 year.
[2] Or rather Nikon and Pentax should be able.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #184,193
11/15/04 9:09:03 PM
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You've answered your own question.
Camcorder sensors are smaller, so it's easier to make zoom lenses with reasonable image quality over the image sensor area.
There are 10x optical zoom digital cameras out now, like the [link|http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=144&modelid=9824&sa=true|Canon S1 IS]. It's just a 3.2 MP camera though. Lenses get bigger and more expensive as the zoom increases and the sensor area increases.
If you really want it, Canon would be happy to sell you a [link|http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=10598|16.7 MP Digital EOS 1Ds Mark II] that will take SLR lenses. It is $8k. !
[link|http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&th=122a4aec9547c5a2&seekm=11783d36.0408170554.47f635a3%40posting.google.com#link1|This] thread talks about several issues in the digital versus film debate. It seems that we'll need about 40 MP cameras to start to beat good film.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #184,214
11/15/04 10:28:25 PM
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Define "beat" and "good" and you're on
With decent light I can take pictures with my 3MP digital that will blow up to 8x10 cleanly. On an $80 printer it will produce something that is indistinguishable from a film print. The model I have was known to be a weaker performer in low light when it was new 3 years ago, but was cheap enough (at the time) to make up for it.
When you want to compare fim photography to digital, remember to use a comparable camera. And comprable processing. Which means a $200 non-SLR camera, and drop the film off at the drug store for processing.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #187,194
12/16/04 1:07:36 PM
12/16/04 1:26:54 PM
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Up close and personal
the Canon XL1 camcorder can take EF lenses as well. Look [link|http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/images/images17.php|here] for the ultimate setup.
Personally I have the Canon EOS Rebel Digital, but don't quite have the money for the pictured lens ($80,000)
~~~)-Steven----
"I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country..."
General George S. Patton
Edited by Steven A S
Dec. 16, 2004, 01:26:54 PM EST
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Post #187,195
12/16/04 1:13:06 PM
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Zooks!
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Post #184,675
11/21/04 2:50:44 AM
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10X
last summer I bought an [link|http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/C740/C74A.HTM|Olympus C-740] that has a 10X optical zoom. Also, a 3 or 4 times digital zoom which I never use. I paid just under $1,000 CDN for it at the time. The zoom is great for taking pictures of kids soccer games etc. It also has pretty good low light performance.
Have fun,
Carl Forde
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