You say that as if it were SO OBVIOUSLY a good thing.

Post #18,262 by CRConrad 11/14/01 12:44:47 PM Reply	You say that as if it were SO OBVIOUSLY a good thing. Screamin' at the top of his lungs, someone Reck-lessly posted: Quoting communists and socialists has never really been all that popular in the States to boot (since the 1920's). And that's why American politics are so peculiarly lopsided, with one party just to the right of Genghis Khan... And another much farther to the right than that, accusing the first of being Bleeding Pinko Librul Commie Scum. If Big Capital hadn't managed to suborn the law-enforcement and judicial branches of society to crush organized labour like they did -- and, above all, if they hadn't managed to somehow sell this to the populace as being in their best interest, a view which you seem to be unthinkingly regurgitating here -- then maybe you guys would actually be, on the whole, better off than you are now. Funny how even the idea seems to never have occurred to most of you. Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #18,274 by wharris2 11/14/01 1:39:06 PM Reply	What are you babbling about? One of the conflicts of the early 20th century in the U.S. was union organization and Big Capitol, as you put it - and the rise of organized labor as a result. The U.S. was quite heavily unionized until the rise of the service society. Or am I misunderstanding what you're calling organized labor? "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth
Post #18,275 by CRConrad 11/14/01 1:49:18 PM Reply	Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot (since it's so particularly particular to America): And above all, their crowning glory (reminiscent of the GPL as an example of "Intellectual Judo"), getting organized labour to discredit itself by becoming a close copy of the mediaeval Guilds system; pretty much the antithesis of what modern unions are supposed to be. There, make better sense now? Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #18,281 by screamer 11/14/01 2:42:15 PM Reply	CRC - My European nemesis... Sir Red, If you'll quote just a tad further down in same post, I say that I don't necessarily have anything against Socialism or Communism, except that it hasn't worked anywhere (okay, any country larger than 10 in population...) because it denies human biology - specifically the notion of territorialism. Lions mark their ground with urine, humans put walls and fences around their turf... I also stated that it's basically a good idea (Utopian in fact), but the devil is in the details... NOW. Did I mention that I speak a certain foreign language and have actually read ProLinina in said language? Read Marx (yeah, Groucho) in English (nicht Deutsch)... Having said that, the idea has occurred to this one American. As well, the Socialist Party of America was very popular in the 20's and early 30's in this country. Until, as you say, the people with most of the wealth in this here country got nervous and crushed it (about the same time Stalin was having his way with the Armenians I think...) There still are liberals in this country, just not many socialists. This "experiment" in democracy, with all of its flaws, still seems to work most of the time. If we weren't a culture obsessed with money, we'd be just another country obsessed with religion and historic hatreds - like the rest of the world... May I remind you, "If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow..." Just a few thoughts, Screamer "I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..." P. Townshend "Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones
Post #18,333 by CRConrad 11/14/01 7:34:41 PM Reply	"Quote just a tad further down in same post"? No effing fun! I mean, hey, if I were to quote the wise and sensible bits of everybody else's posts, it would just become so much the harder for me to show off how wise and sensible I am in comparison. Sheesh, isn't that obvious?!? Seems you know nothing about debating... Anyway, a certain unabashed Eevul Smouker writes: There still are liberals in this country, just not many socialists. Yeah, but the problem I was getting at, with the liberals being the left-most there is, is this: They inevitably come off looking like "left-wing extremists", and thus automatically suspect. OTOH, if you had a good healthy dollop of "Socalists" -- semi-sensible "Social Demorats" or raving commie loonies, it doesn't really matter -- to balance out your Attila-the-huns, they would be the "fringe left", and the Libruls would look more like the sensible middle-of-the-road alternative they actually are. Now do you see what I mean? The problem with a lack of socialists isn't actually the socialists themselves, at all, but their (or their lack's) effect on how others are perceived! Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #18,348 by Ashton 11/14/01 8:36:00 PM Reply	Stop it! Stop it! Look, Christian - er sorry - (Not sorry it's Your Name, just sorry that in calling you Your Name, I might seem to be umm sarcastic or saying, Look, You Christians..or uhh - Damn, how do I get Outta this? ;-) Gotta cease coming up with these blindingly Clear explanations in detail of: just how Fucked IS all political nondialogue here in the Land o' The Free and Stuff [lots of Stuff! fershure] (= Valley Girl idiom that last, but I betcha knew that, too.) I mean - that just makes it Sooo much harder to ID all those Other niggling consequences as follow from this Prime Misdirective, y'know? {Sheesh!} Ashton National Security by Obscurantism R'Us ie. er Kudos! creep
Post #18,371 by boxley 11/14/01 10:34:44 PM Reply	Well Da was a shop steward UAW, Eddie Burns his left hand man, listening to long talks in the night about wobblies, socialists etc. The old man argueing that we came he for a chance at a better life, and Eddie in full cry oer the noble ways of social Glasgow always ending with the "If Glasgow was so fscking good why dont ya go back!" We lived in a house Mr. Burns beside us, food on the table and my father acheived his dream of owning a small farm while working 60-80 hrs a week to get there. The dream is different now. American Left is about using the downtrodden as automatic voters because they support the welfare state which is a joke unto itself. The down trodden get bupkus except a ride to the polling station and a pack of smokes for voting. We spend a tremendous amount of this countrie's tax money on the poor. Problem is the lefties running the organisations that help others suck out 98 cents on the buck and live the vida loco. Examples are the red cross Jesse the Jackson and H.U.D housing and urban development who use the money to give kick backs to each other and consult the money to death. The poor and the minorities are afraid of the righties so keep voting and getting nothing. American right use the fear of the middleclass that if they dont support the right they will end up back in the hood by being taxed to death. A large pile of tax money is rebated by the right into the pockets of IBM et al and the bill is presented to the middle class. Those normal folks of us who want to own rifles, pistols and flamethrowers over the objection of the left are pandered by this group until 9/11 they are using that for an excuse to strip us of all rights. A little more complex than oer yonder. thanx, bill tshirt front "born to die before I get old" thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
Post #18,400 by screamer 11/15/01 10:10:17 AM Reply	Why don't you go back where you came from :-) Oh, that's right... Alaska is a territory of the US, isn't it? Very apt description of the mess. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Just a few thoughts, Screamer "I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..." P. Townshend "Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones P.S. Did I forget to mention... Thank you.
Post #18,410 by boxley 11/15/01 11:33:31 AM Reply	workin on it :) tshirt front "born to die before I get old" thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
Post #18,399 by screamer 11/15/01 10:05:14 AM Reply	I'll raise your meese and ... LOL... All I got is a pair o' deusys... What can I say, your country got some "extras" we can have? Sort of a refreshing change of lunatic... I did throw you a bone in the last threads with smoking... You may fire at will. Just a few thoughts, Screamer The man who once knew fucking everything...

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