Post #182,392
11/3/04 12:35:04 AM
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Why did Bush win?
Believe it or not - "moral values".
The most immoral shit who ever held the office.
A country this stupid deserves to collapse.
"That miscreant ought to be suppressed." - Robt. E. Lee
-drl
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Post #182,393
11/3/04 12:36:37 AM
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He ain't won yet
Sorry, for me it isn't over till the last vote is counted.
Nightowl >8#
"It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends."
(Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
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Post #182,394
11/3/04 12:42:44 AM
11/3/04 12:58:05 AM
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Re: He ain't won yet
He's got a 130k lead in Ohio with precincts running out.
The best he can do after losing Ohio is an electoral tie, which amounts to a win for Shrub.
We are being punished by God, and it's only beginning.
A country who would vote for this utter piece of garbage deserves to fall apart. A party that can only front a Kerry to challenge an amoral moron, deserves to fade away.
It was *such* a good place, not so long ago...
(edit: 140k now...)
(edit: 100k ...)
-drl
Edited by deSitter
Nov. 3, 2004, 12:45:12 AM EST
Edited by deSitter
Nov. 3, 2004, 12:58:05 AM EST
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Post #182,401
11/3/04 2:00:14 AM
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Be realistic.
While you’re technically correct, Bush has won and won convincingly.
Peter
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Post #182,395
11/3/04 12:59:00 AM
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The Democratic Party failed again.
(Assuming he loses...)
They made noises about throwing Jeb out of office in Florida in 2002. They failed (56:44). They didn't learn from their mistakes in 2000 and 2002. McAuliffe should have been replaced long ago. The primaries were too compressed. Kerry didn't have to prove himself against others after Iowa and never gave a coherent message on his policies and why he voted the way he did.
Bush was vulnerable for many many reasons: 1) He barely won in 2000 but governed as if he had a 75:25 mandate. 2) He and Rumsfeld tried to do Iraq on the cheap and made a mess of it. 3) He made a mess of the US budget. 4) He made recess appointments of idealogues to the Federal Courts. 5) He has no coherent policy on fixing Medicare and Social Security. 6) He has no coherent energy policy. 7) He's gravely damaged many of our important alliances. 8) He refuses to hold people in the administration accountable for their mistakes. And on and on. Kerry and the Democrats were complicit in 1 -4 at a minimum. They should have had a better strategy in the House and Senate over the last 3+ years in preparation for today. They should have hammered at Bush's record, not been distracted by Bush's TANG records or Cheney's daughter or other stuff like that.
Bush won because the Democrats believed that their message was self-evident. They thought people would vote for Kerry because he was ABB. They were wrong again. :-( They seem to have too many operatives from NY and DC and not enough people from the midwest - they don't seem to understand the heartland.
Lots of people like Bush a lot and not because he's a "family values" guy. Lots of people in the heartland fear Massachusetts Liberalism and Bush's rhetoric about opportunity and freedom resonates with them. While BP got beat about the head a bit for saying it, he had a point. It's going to be tough for a "Massachusetts Liberal" to win a presidential election for the forseeable future. Kennedy barely won. Dukakis lost.
I think things in US politics go in cycles. The DNC will reinvent itself. The RNC will get too pompus. Power will shift over time. Dunno how long it will take though....
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #182,396
11/3/04 1:02:38 AM
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That's it
They need someone who appeals to *midwesterners*, not a lot of fat ignorant bubbas and wine-swilling cheese-eaters.
-drl
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Post #182,409
11/3/04 4:44:19 AM
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I came. I saw - and watched 'Control Room'.
I think that the 'reasons' you give are close enough, at least on the level of abstraction favored by the mass. But I see a common denominator to this result - the demonstrated preference for projecting a fantasy upon this smirking jackanape: the Shining City; it's *there!* .. if you'll just close your eyes and dream along with me. Indefinitely. I Will Take Care of You, fearful ones.
In order to project this fantasy, it is necessary to completely dismiss the actual history of events in all those areas which are measurable facets of "real life performance on the job" since 1/00. (It also appears essential within this context, to adhere absolutely to the belief that, Saddam == Al-Q and he was instrumental in 9/11.)
ie today We Are - our pop Tee Vee shows; 'Reality' is whatever the neoconmen repeat that it is, in between pharm-chem ads for the Drug-free society. Arbeit macht frei.
Watched a DVD of Control Room with a friend, periodically checking in on the denouement of the [1]Constitution, the advanced spadework for the New Theocracy (while guesstimating the beginning of open-season on US tourists next, most anywhere in the world). No longer can we be 'excused' for the accidental sElection: now it is clear that The Peepul want more of The Same.
Bye bye polyester Princess Cruises.. for that R&R from the deteriorations within the Fatherland.
Complementary in this flic - the Iraqi invasion reality then, and the ascent now of faith-based National Love for swagger, smirks - and defocussed obliviousness to abject failure on so many levels as to be tedious to list.
The intelligent Marine Lt., gradually wising up re the actual mission of the 'Coalition Control Center' (he subsequently resigned from USMC; was interviewed by T. Gross a few days ago). The consistent gravitas of the middle-aged Al-Jazeera counterfoil. Clips of Rumsfeld and his street banter ~ "shit happens, so..?" The civilian casualties up-close as would never make US Reality Tee Vee (too unReal).
Yep, the play's the thing wherein we'll catch the conscience of the Murican Peepul.
All that Peepul-love for Joe McCarthy - explains today's events por moi.
Enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln; it's a comedy.
[1] At one point in Control Room the Al-J antagonist gives a reply to another's plaint about some disgusting incident, and re the general question ~ "..but who will stop America?" He replies with assurance ~ America will stop America; they. believe. in. their. Constitution!
QED
Closing thought: USSC within a year \ufffd
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Post #182,481
11/3/04 11:07:09 AM
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WhoTF understands Das Vaterland?
I mean, "the heartland". It's pretty simple, I think. Look at the "Gay Marriage" initiatives. Every single one of them defeated. Know what that means? Getting that on so many state ballots was crucial to a Repo win. Why? Because it emptied the fundie Xian churches to vote "NO" on heathen rights. And, while they were there anyway to do God's work, they voted for Dubya.
It's time to re-open the Coliseum.
bcnu,
Mikem
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
-Bertrand Russell
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Post #182,534
11/3/04 1:59:42 PM
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Kerry needed to reject gay marriage more strongly...
if he wanted to win. Sure, he said that he believed that marriage was between a man and a woman. But he didn't state it nearly as forcefully as Bush, and he was from the state that legalized gay marriage.
There were 11 states where gay marriage was on the ballot. It passed in all 11. That issue also brought out the evangelical vote in a big way.
Those states were Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Ohio, Utah and Oregon. Note Ohio - this measure guaranteed that Bush's base was going to turn out in a critical battleground state.
I firmly believe that Bush would have lost without the gay marriage issue.
Furthermore if the Democrats want to make a comeback, a very good way to do it would be to pin the "h" word on the Republicans - hypocrite. They didn't even try to do that this year. Hopefully next time they do do it.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #182,544
11/3/04 2:40:31 PM
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My campaign motto
It'll be too late in 2008
-drl
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Post #182,573
11/3/04 6:59:53 PM
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Yup, the that's the way to do it.
I remember years ago a moron public interst lawayer (Eddie Tabash, who I dealt with in person) who pretty much destroyed everything he touched, put on the ballot a rediculously badly worded gun control measure.
The right wingers came out of the woodwork in vast quantity to vote against it and while they were there they "voted against the nigger", so we got the disasterous Dukmajian governorship from which we're still recovering instead of Tom Bradley, respected former mayor of Los Angeles. Of course they alos voted against every other even slightly progressive measure.
For the curious, Dukmajian held up all funds for infrastructure improvement and social programs for two terms. The only programs he would release money for were building new prisons. I think we still have a couple that aren't open because there was no funding to run them.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #182,595
11/3/04 7:53:23 PM
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Ah, the Duker.
Man, that takes me back. I haven't lived in California since 1980 but il Duker is a legend.
bcnu,
Mikem
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
-Bertrand Russell
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Post #182,591
11/3/04 7:34:53 PM
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But you're not anti-American. Nope.
You just think a country that disagrees with you is stupid and deserves to collapse. Nope, no intolerance or bigotry here.
Don't worry. A country that deserves to collapse will collapse eventually. Happens every time. But a country that *you* think deserves to collapse isn't necessarily one that does so deserve. So don't go holding your breath.
Now go find your happy place.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Memo to Democrats and to the Left: hatred is not a substitute for vision.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
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Post #182,632
11/3/04 9:33:54 PM
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At this point - I AM ANTI-AMERICAN
Fuck America. Clearly I have nothing in common with the mindless fools who voted for:
A war we didn't need that has drained our military capability to deal with the real threats of N Korea and Iran. Even Reagan's military advisors and cabinet members characterize Iraq as a "strategic blunder".
A massive tax hike on our children (tax cuts with deficits are tax increases on the next generation - get an econ book - read it).
A "leader" who lacks flexibility to adapt to changing data and is basically Bin Ladin's shmoe.
The most secretive administration ever (surpassing Nixon).
Job losses are in fact climbing again.
If this is America - you take it. I'll start looking for decent digs elsewhere.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
Step 1: THINK!
Step 2: VOTE!
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Post #182,645
11/3/04 10:00:53 PM
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Come to Britain!
Seriously.
It's a winner on a couple of counts:
1. No Marlowe and his ilk; they're strictly a US phenomenon.
2. Universal healthcare.
3. The beer. Oh, the beer. Swoon.
4. Jobs with overtime. 80-hour weeks and weekend working are not expected.
5. We're all lefty scum who believe in the welfare state and stuff.
6. We drive on the correct side of the road, and crash less than Americans. Ten times less per capita.
7. You get to listen to Radio 4.
8. Cost of living is a bit less if you stay out of London, which is still Planet Expensive.
9. Although we like to rib you for being uncouth oiks on the internet, in person, we love Americans.
10. Eurostar My house -> Paris is about 5 hours on the train, and I live in the frozen north-east. (Mind, who'd want to go to PARIS? It's full of terrorist-loving FRENCH people.)
11. We don't have that chest-beating thing going on. Anyone going "I love this country *snif*" is likely to be laughed at, not admired.
Downsides:
1. It rains a bit.
2. Eating out is going to be a bit of a come-down.
3. You pay more tax.
4. Petrol is more expensive (about 2x what it is in the US right now)
5. We're all commie pinko leftists who believe in the welfare state and stuff; ask Marlowe.
6. Chavs. But you have those, too.
7. I'm not sure that there's a straight bit of road for more than about a couple of miles anywhere in the country.
8. The current wave of anti-asylum-seeker hysteria is annoying.
9. Tony Blair. It'll pass, and there's enough good eggs in the Labour Party to outweigh him. Gordon Brown in particular is an intellectual giant who I hope to see in number 10 soon.
10. Channel 5. It's like a crap version of ITV, and that's pretty darned crap.
11. Possible downside - cars are almost all manual transmission. If you have a licence earned in an automatic, you'll need to take your test again in a manual to drive one.
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Post #182,648
11/3/04 10:05:41 PM
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how much is a
cost of 4 bedroom house/rent per month or cost of purchase
pound of beef
pound of porkchops
pint of beer
loaf of bread
dozen eggs
pound of bacon
pound of sausage
packet of fish n chips
can a nix admin make 65k euros a year, if so after taxes what is left
serious questions,
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
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Post #182,655
11/3/04 10:20:28 PM
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Re: how much is a
cost of 4 bedroom house/rent per month or cost of purchase Property is expensive. For something you’d actually want to live in, you’re looking at around \ufffd600-\ufffd1500 a month rent for a 4 bedroomed place. pound of beef About \ufffd1.50 pound of porkchops \ufffd2ish pint of beer Varies. My local: \ufffd2 for a pint of decent real ale. Sam Smith pubs are about \ufffd1.50 a pint for the house brew. loaf of bread 50p dozen eggs \ufffd1 pound of bacon Dunno. pound of sausage \ufffd1.50ish packet of fish n chips Where I live, it's about \ufffd3 for fish & chips can a nix admin make 65k euros a year, if so after taxes what is left Without doubt. That's circa \ufffd45K, which is an entirely reasonable expectation for a senior administrator. I reckon you'd end up with, after taxes, pension/savings, etc, about \ufffd30K in your pocket. I generally work on the principle that a third of your salary goes on tax and deductions. serious questions, Serious answers.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #182,674
11/3/04 10:40:20 PM
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so $30k quid after taxes
2500 quid per month 1500 after rent
$380 per week to live on
case of beer 356
average cost of 3 lbs meat*6 =36 leaves 320
other food brekkie and lunch for kids 100 leaves 220
cable phone net electric etc ?Guess? 100 leaves 120
notice I havnt bought clothes gas or insurance or made car payments, would be tough to do
thanks for the info
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
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Post #182,679
11/3/04 10:45:15 PM
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Many people manage it
I could live like a king on \ufffd45K.
Doesn't the missus work? You could farm the sprogs out to a childminder.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
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Post #182,680
11/3/04 10:46:52 PM
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I have to feed 4 of them
so the cost of a minder would wipe out the second job earnings.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
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Post #182,681
11/3/04 10:50:28 PM
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Would it?
You could always dispose of a couple into white slavery.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
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Post #182,684
11/3/04 11:01:30 PM
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well I could say I was taking my wife to see the old country
and hire a sitter for a few days, and not come back, is there extradition between the US and here?
seriously my brother makes 60k euros in holland with 2 kids and has to work a second job to make ends meet and my sisterinlaw is the fabulous marckie (runs a talent agency) they bust butt to break even
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
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Post #182,649
11/3/04 10:10:08 PM
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What are the requirements to be approved for immigration?
Aside from vast amounts of cash. And do you mind if I choose Ireland instead of your island?
-----------------------------------------
How do you convince a Washington Journalist that you're not slapping him in the face?
Tell him you're not.
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Post #182,661
11/3/04 10:26:18 PM
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I don't have the foggiest idea.
Try this site: [link|http://www.workpermit.com/uk/uk.htm|http://www.workpermit.com/uk/uk.htm]
And Ireland is nice, but you’ll find the tax burden hefty, the locals unintelligible and the driving... interesting. Or free-form. :-)
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
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Post #182,695
11/3/04 11:40:34 PM
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I've been there.
I love London. I can't afford London, but I like it. Your climate is too cold though (I'm having issues with Seattle still).
I've recently been on a walkabout in Panama. I *like* Panama. Its CHEAP. They use dollars so no money conversion issues. Many Americans are choosing to retire there because:
1) Its CHEAP (get a house - on the beach - for about $100k)
2) Dollars (no exchange rate worries)
3) Decent health care.
4) English friendly
5) GREAT Coffee
6) GREAT selection of tropical fruits
7) No hurricanes (too close to the equator).
8) 2-3 Hour flight from Miami.
9) Mountains, Beaches, Rivers, Rain Forest, Wildlife.
10) Panamanians are NICE people.
Also looking at OZ.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
Step 1: THINK!
Step 2: VOTE!
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Post #182,734
11/4/04 4:39:38 AM
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I second that
Matthew Greet
But we must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village, army after army. And they call me an assassin. What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? They lie. They lie and we must be merciful to those who lie.
- Colonol Kurtz, Apocalypse Now.
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Post #182,735
11/4/04 4:41:53 AM
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Not that easy
You don't exactly have an open-door policy, even for skilled workers.
In fact no one does - other than us.
-drl
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Post #182,736
11/4/04 7:16:32 AM
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No, you don't.
Peter
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Post #182,740
11/4/04 7:47:51 AM
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We will now.
So long as you are willing to undercut a US worker's pay, that is.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #182,760
11/4/04 10:03:24 AM
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Paying the prevailing wage is NOT undercutting US workers
There is wage disparity even here in the US. Costs more to live in NYC and LA than Des Moines or Lincoln. Therefore workers are paid more in LA & NYC. If a company moves from LA or NYC to Des Moines or Lincoln, do they still need to pay the NYC/LA wages? Nope.
If I move to UK, GY, or India, should I expect to receive the US wages? Nope.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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