Post #181,500
10/28/04 2:38:45 PM
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Sorry, it is not.
Emphasis Mine.
To the hard-cord pro-life people, abortion really is murder. That isn't a slogan, that is a sincere belief Where do you compromise with mass murder?
And how do you reconcile the Establishment Clause with the government assessing and implementing policies based upon a belief?
So this is an issue involving widespread disagreement about what government can and should do, and what is right for government to attempt or not. How can this avoid being a political issue?
Because the White House is not the House of God. Articles of Faith/Belief have no place in the political discourse of this country.
bcnu,
Mikem
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
-Bertrand Russell
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Post #181,502
10/28/04 2:41:56 PM
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So...
..thou shall not kill
means that murder laws are anti-establishment clause?
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #181,512
10/28/04 3:20:09 PM
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Church vs State - a recap for your benefit
The State does not have the right to pass laws that support this religion or that.
But citizens have every right to want the State to pass laws based on their beliefs. Regardless of whether those beliefs are religious in origin - the ballot box doesn't care. Given that we are a democratic country, those citizens may succeed. If the laws do not promote one religion over another, then those laws pass the Establishment Clause. Regardless of their origins.
It is rank hypocrisy to be against this when it comes to the pro-life movement but to have been for it when religious leaders like Martin Luther King were for civil rights. (And I say this as a pro-choice atheist.)
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #181,521
10/28/04 3:51:56 PM
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Sorry, forgot one word.
When I said "belief" I meant "religious belief/conviction". Which in the case of fundamentalist Christians, it is. I know you better than to think that you would actually advocate legislating fundamentalist Christian beliefs, but you're close to doing that here.
bcnu,
Mikem
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
-Bertrand Russell
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Post #181,533
10/28/04 4:37:37 PM
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You don't know me very well then
For I do indeed support the right of fundamentalist Christians to attempt to legislate their beliefs, where those beliefs are Constitutional. (Of course I also support efforts to make those attempts fail where I disagree with those beliefs.) I likewise support the right of murderers and rapists to get legal representation. (Even while I deplore murder and rape.)
My reasons why were very eloquently expressed in A Man for all Seasons, you can find the relevant passat at [link|http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/amfas.html|http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/amfas.html]. (If you've seen the movie, then you'll appreciate the irony of Roper being the one arguing for cutting down laws to achieve your ends.)
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #181,536
10/28/04 4:47:27 PM
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Commandments
About as funamentalist as you get.
There's some laws in there.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #181,514
10/28/04 3:28:19 PM
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God can't have anything to do with it
considering the pro-lifers are also usually pro-capital punishers.
GWB is the most murdering (capital punishing - that is) governor ever.
Pretty hard to reconcile those positions. Its about more than "life is sacred".
Anyhow, if you don't favor abortion - don't do it. Leave me and mine alone though.
Banning abortion didn't stop em anyway - just made them riskier, more expensive, and un-hygenic.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
Step 1: THINK!
Step 2: VOTE!
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Post #181,516
10/28/04 3:34:53 PM
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Complicating factor of money
Insurance coverage? Governments subsidation of healthcare...all these are complicating issues.
In general, I'm with you...fed has no business even entering the discussion.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #181,518
10/28/04 3:42:30 PM
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Amen.
bcnu,
Mikem
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
-Bertrand Russell
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