being somewhere to the right of Genhis Kahn

Post #17,729 by boxley 11/11/01 12:06:20 AM Reply	being somewhere to the right of Genhis Kahn it annoys me to find myself agreeing with socialists of any ilk. [link\|http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/nov2001/coup-n07.shtml\| earl ] **************************************** The bitter irony is That such a sweeping attack on democratic rights has been perpetrated in the name of a war to defend \ufffdfreedom\ufffd and \ufffddemocracy\ufffd against terrorism. But neither the Bush administration, nor its Democratic Party collaborators, nor a compliant and complicit media bother to explain the following contradiction: the United States government never secured powers such as these at any point in the twentieth century. Not in World War I, World War II or the Cold War, when the antagonists were powerful and heavily armed states, was such a radical restructuring of the governmental and legal framework carried out. Why is this happening today, when the alleged enemy is a small ban terrorists operating out of caves in one of the poorest countries in the world? ********************************************** tshirt front "born to die before I get old" thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
Post #17,734 by Ashton 11/11/01 2:49:24 AM Reply	(Again) This IS how it always begins. Just mouthing the words about, those who will trade a little liberty for a little security deserve neither, is not the same as understanding and acting. A few more excepts - It is worth noting that at the height of the anthrax scare, in mid-October, congressional Republicans favored shutting down Congress and adjourning indefinitely, the better to give Bush, the FBI, the CIA and the military a free hand, both abroad and at home. The political collapse of the Democratic Party is the culmination of a protracted process of adaptation to the most right-wing sections of the ruling elite. In their craven response first to the Republican impeachment conspiracy, and then to the theft of the 2000 election, the Democrats already demonstrated their inability and unwillingness to defend democratic rights. While for the moment, the vast majority of those caught up by the government\ufffds dragnet are immigrants of Middle-Eastern and Central Asian descent, it is only a matter of time before these anti-democratic methods will be used more widely. The wholesale attack on democratic rights can only be halted through the independent organization of the working class, which unites all sections of the working population\ufffdimmigrant and US-born\ufffdin a political struggle against the financial oligarchy and its political representatives. I can remember McCarthy's voice and body language, radio and Tee Vee, clearly. Also lots of newsreels and other sources of G\ufffdbbels, Hitler in full propaganda flight -- and the crowds of willing sheep headed for first: others' slaughter, then their own. Then recall the entire 'cold war' ... We are living today - the closest I can recall of those times (as a child), only - as this screed points out: NEVER to the extent of these new Gestapo-patterned alterations over a mere EIGHT WEEKS. This is unprecedented: that we surrender without a whimper. Ashcroft in his current speeches is daily reminding me more and more of Joe McCarthy and G\ufffdbbels, but with nothing like the virtuosic oratorical capabilities of the inventor of the Ministry of Propaganda himself. In any sane culture, these changes - as time-limited emergency powers only !!! - would be cause for great apprehension, following lengthy debate. Now: neither debate nor even discussion. That we are ovinely acquiescing (via the patently false rubric of unity!) - in dismantling individul protection from the State, makes of us all today: Craven cowards. Ashton Ashamed to be associated with such a fearful mob, and such a blatant repeat of 1930s. We next deserve to 'lose' - we already have lost what was worth any fight over.
Post #17,799 by Ric Locke 11/11/01 7:35:00 PM Reply	The beginning was long ago and entirely favorably received by yourself and many others, as I distinctly recall. Spotted owls and trash fish are much more important than my wife's relatives, of course, and since after you've taken jobs away from the timber beasts, and repudiated contracts for water delivery, your victims don't have the cash to appeal to higher authority (if there were one), there's no unrest. And of course the unregenerate bastards deserved it totally -- why, they (against all reason) failed sometimes to vote for leftists, despite being members of the Universal Proletariat who are utterly dependent upon the Party for their welfare... Child molesters? To the pillory with the bastards! Sexual harassment? Jail him right now! Due process of law? What the hell's this? Are you actually on that slime's side? To Gehenna with you! Sorry about your ox, Ash. Mine went for the EPA/EEOC picnic in '82 or thereabouts, so I have no advice on how to deal with Gores. Regards, Ric
Post #17,835 by Ashton 11/12/01 6:18:22 AM Reply	You may speak for yourself - if you can. But you can't have any idea of my response to your Popular shibboleths as substitute for thinking - spotted owls ?? - you're only vaguely close re timber: I indeed believe that we should have forests. As the rain forests disappear at accelerating rates: we may live long enough to see via their loss: what else (within the biota in such forests) - was essential to human survival too? As if we understood an iota of the interdependence of the entire ecosystem. Oh..! that might be "PC" to mention. Whatever PC variously 'means' amidst the slogan people. 23 Skidoo to you too. For me it is simply a fact from experience: the vast majority of US citizens have become merely consumers and are disinterested in anything else - certainly not spotted owls, known world petroleum reserves - or right now, so far: whatever the fuck the Constitution might have been about. I have little idea which Ruling Group you'd like to stand in for a mass of grazing sheep, but my first guess would be: Biznessmen. Yup - with a copy of Atlas Shrugged under one arm and the SCSSA under the other, or maybe just a cel-fone with the Senator's private number will do. As currently. Hell, next you'll be assigning me a label as one o' them Libruls! or something, without ever having looked up the word in a pre 1980 dictionary. Nahh you gots no idea who I vote against (except maybe: against replacing Government with Corporation. Correct on that nay vote.) Who blame? Why not The Murican Peepul - who didn't notice or care enough, except about shopping. Ashton Who didn't expect much better, actually - since Nixon. That measured: the sucker constant. Blessed are those who expect nothing, for never shall they be disappointed.
Post #17,887 by JayMehaffey 11/12/01 11:45:04 AM Reply	Re: The beginning was long ago The connection your trying to draw here between liberal activism and the current slide to an authoritarian government in the US makes no real sense. Yes, there have been problems with left wing activisms depending to much on liberal judges to achieve ends that would have been better achieved through politics. But that has no bearing on the current problem, there is no substantial connection between the two. The only point of connection that I can see at all is that the left have at times increased police power to temporarily arrest people in abuse cases. But it is the reactionary Republicans that have always sought to increase police power. The whole obsession over child molesters and pedophiles is a right wing obsession, one picked because it's a crime so heinous that people don't object when the police abuse the law to catch the guilty. It was the right wing that wanted to extend police search authority at every turn, to give the police permission to break the law to catch criminals, and to allow the police to use lethal force against everybody. It wasn't the left that used the FBI to harass American citizens, it wasn't the left that used the CIA to overthrow foreign democracies. It was the right that grossly abused those agencies. It certainly wasn't the left that had the FBI infiltrate left wing organizations and then had those infiltrators encourage the organization to become violent so they could be arrested and jailed. The only way the Democratic party can be held responsible for the current mess is the way that they have caved in. They haven't even tried to protect us, they just rolled over and said, whatever the president wants the president gets. Jay
Post #18,016 by jb4 11/13/01 8:40:09 AM Reply	Nicely said. jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #18,054 by cwbrenn 11/13/01 11:42:07 AM Reply	Actually, both sides have been screwing the rest of us The extremes on both sides believe that government is a stick that should be used to beat the masses into submission. Whether it's about taking away free speech (when criticizing the government) or taking away free speech (when saying not nice things about certain kinds of people), it's still taking away free speech. It's not a matter of who did it first -- it's a matter of POLITICIANS acting politically. The Left and the Right are equally egregious in this, it's all a question of who happens to be in power at the time. Of course, I am more inconvenienced when the Right is in power, because their actions affect me more directly, but that doesn't make the Left any less guilty of doing the same damned things. The exact same damned things. Radical Left + Government = Tyranny. Radical Right + Government = Tyranny. Intelligent Left or Right + Government = some measure of annoyance and, as a trade off, interesting conversation. Intelligensia Left or Right + Government = gag reflex. Also See Radical Left/Right + Government entry. There is difference worldview but no real difference in methodology. In other words: It's all bad. "We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young

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