I'm still waiting on the results from Greg. But that's not really the issue, the problem is as I outlined in the post before this one, he is unwilling to learn to change his behaviors in order to peaceably co-exist up here.

And the most frustrating part on my end, is that I don't know how much the illness is a factor. Sometimes he truly does things he doesn't even remember, which makes it really hard to remain supportive.

None-the-less, I'm trying.

Brenda

Forgive me for being ignorant or whatever, but this seems a bit out of the blue. In a word, why?

I know Norm/Orion has had trying episodes with IWETHEY. I know he has a condition which affects his behaviour - we've seen this numerous times. Has he and others decided that IWETHEY is not a good place for him to be? It seemed like he was managing that.

Well, he was trying, but see, we started talking about how he needed to manage things here. Mostly not reacting to every thing, not jumping at every "false" accusation, etc. Problem is, he does really good for awhile, and then he tends to start back into his "defense" mode. That tends to start problems.

He asked me and my friend Tony to help him cope up here, but it seems that he just can't. Tony asked him why he wanted to be here, and his words are that he "needs to defend himself" We explained that the need to defend yourself isn't a reason to be on a site.

I honestly thought that he could learn to change some of his behaviors, and I don't know how much the illness is a factor, but it seems that he is unable to stop the snowballing effect of becoming paranoid every time something goes wrong up here with him and someone.

Edit: Norman admitted that he has sort of an addiction to coming here and defending himself.

Tony convinced him that the place was bad for his health, because it was. He was having relapses of paranoid every time he came here. So he put Norman on the IWT 12 step program.

Meanwhile, Norman insisted there were people up here, like Rick W., Spiceware, and others, but he didn't mention anymore, that liked him and wanted to talk to him. We then told him that if they really wanted to talk to him and knew he wasn't coping up here, that they would be willing to come to him, hence my post about his group. I know some people have already joined that group, so Norman wasn't wrong.

Until he learns not to let everything posted up here affect him as much as he lets it, he can't handle this place. I have worked for two years learning how to cope up here, and quite frankly, I think I've almost got it down. Problem is, Norman isn't willing to change his behavior like I was. He isn't willing to stop defending himself.

Tony said though, like any 12-step counselor, (and he has a Psychiatry background), we can't STOP Norman from coming here, only lend support and help and encouragement. So I can't promise he won't return, but I hope that if he ever does, he learns that the best way to cope up here is to not let it get to him, and not take it personally for the most part, and not always jump to his defense.

Hope that answers your question. If you want more information, feel free to join his group I posted about and read back a couple weeks.

Edit: And if you genuinely want to stay in contact with Norman, and are concerned about joining a Yahoo group that he runs,(which I completely understand), you can also as an alternative, join my group:
[link|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hollow_Tree|http://groups.yahoo....group/Hollow_Tree]
I run it, and Norman is on moderation, so there is some measure of control. You can also read it without joining it, as it's public. :)

Brenda
Nightowl >8#

Owlet, I think you've explained it very well - neither excessively nor warm-puppifed [no, that's not really a word].

Thanks, I tried to just state it as it is.

I suggest that if, As the World Churns -- something like this comes up yet again: just bookmark this thread and refer any enquiries to it. I can't see that any more medico- psych- or psychic palaver could add to the "experience level" of any likely readers. "Looking for an opportunity to defend oneself" is its own diagnosis/prognosis and last word. IMhO.

Good suggestion, I bookmarked it under friends, so I can find it easily.

Now you've earned a psychic rest on this intractable 'matter'. (So have 'we')

No arguments there. :)

Brenda