I have to agree that polytheistic civilization commited

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Post #175,606

Picture of Arkadiy

9/22/04 8:53:59 AM

I have to agree that polytheistic civilization commited

attrocities. But I am not sure if they indeed used religion as the excuse for real industrial-grade evil - killing off entire cities or nations, like Crusaders did to Constantinople, Nazies to Jews and Stalin to Chechens. Aztec gods and Moloch required human sacrifices, which is a horrible deed, but, when their followers set out to subjugate neighbors, did they do it because Moloch told them he needs more victims? I do not know enough about Aztecs, but Carthage's commercial expansion brought it in conflict with Rome, not religion.

Mars is another good example. Are Romans favored by Mars because the conquer, or are they conquering to please Mars? I thing former is closer to Romans' feelings.

--

... a reference to Presidente Arbusto.
-- [link|http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001417.html|Geoffrey K. Pullum]

Post #175,757

Picture of FuManChu

9/22/04 2:30:24 PM

In the Aztec case, yes

The impetus for conquest was directly tied to the bloodthirstiness of the war god. They only killed and cannibalized their own when they ran out of nearby enemies.

All I'm saying is that Rome, and to a lesser extent Greece, had atheistic "industrial-grade evil" because they had acheived a critical mass of polytheism after numerous waves of conquest. Early Rome was much more bound to its pantheon as a sincere justification for behavior than later Rome was. So it's not polytheism per se which diffuses religious justification, IMO--instead, there's a watershed point when enough cultures have collided and mixed their pantheons. The Aztecs never had the opportunity to attain that watershed point, for example; their one chance came with European contact, and they didn't survive that long enough to see the polytheistic results. One might argue that Europe, itself, has reached that point, and that Hitler and Stalin are outcomes. I would guess that Chang Kai-shek and Mao Tse-tung (and other atheistic communist revolutionaries) functioned equivalently; they all were attempting *cultural* consolidation in the face of cultural uncertainty (with an economic factor, to be sure). The fact that they were able to do so atheistically was dependent upon the number and frequency of those same cultural collisions which forced the revolutions themselves.

IMO. I'm not going to make a doctoral thesis out of all this. ;)

I have no idea what you're talking about - (Nightowl) - (31) - Sept. 21, 2004, 11:41:00 AM EDT

new covenant was made up by paul who took - (boxley) - (30) - Sept. 21, 2004, 11:45:08 AM EDT

WHA??? - (Nightowl) - (29) - Sept. 21, 2004, 11:48:18 AM EDT

Your church is confused - (boxley) - (13) - Sept. 21, 2004, 11:59:37 AM EDT

Maybe it's just me who's confused - (Nightowl) - (12) - Sept. 21, 2004, 12:16:18 PM EDT

well the root of all evil is religion - (boxley) - (11) - Sept. 21, 2004, 12:33:10 PM EDT

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTT - (Nightowl) - (2) - Sept. 21, 2004, 12:34:25 PM EDT

Good comeback. -NT - (pwhysall) - (1) - Sept. 21, 2004, 01:51:03 PM EDT

Re: Good comeback. - (danreck) - Sept. 21, 2004, 06:16:13 PM EDT

Deep -NT - (deSitter) - Sept. 21, 2004, 12:48:43 PM EDT

That's not a Hebraic idea - (FuManChu) - (1) - Sept. 21, 2004, 01:17:56 PM EDT

no hebrew required :-) - (boxley) - Sept. 21, 2004, 01:47:35 PM EDT

Say "ideology" - (Arkadiy) - (4) - Sept. 21, 2004, 06:50:33 PM EDT

But you're forgetting Mars, the God of War. - (a6l6e6x) - Sept. 21, 2004, 08:32:43 PM EDT

Intriguing concept - (FuManChu) - (2) - Sept. 22, 2004, 01:27:24 AM EDT

I have to agree that polytheistic civilization commited - (Arkadiy) - (1) - Sept. 22, 2004, 08:53:59 AM EDT

In the Aztec case, yes - (FuManChu) - Sept. 22, 2004, 02:30:24 PM EDT

Nope, you're talking the same thing - (ben_tilly) - (14) - Sept. 21, 2004, 12:01:51 PM EDT

Re: Nope, you're talking the same thing - (Nightowl) - (7) - Sept. 21, 2004, 12:11:58 PM EDT

No, you don't *know* that - (ben_tilly) - (6) - Sept. 21, 2004, 12:57:17 PM EDT

Re: No, you don't *know* that - (Nightowl) - (5) - Sept. 21, 2004, 01:55:08 PM EDT

Ah, the fun of epistemology - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Sept. 22, 2004, 08:01:44 PM EDT

It was the former. - (Nightowl) - (2) - Sept. 22, 2004, 08:09:33 PM EDT

I realized that was likely... - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Sept. 22, 2004, 08:23:38 PM EDT

That's ok - (Nightowl) - Sept. 22, 2004, 08:27:10 PM EDT

Re: Ah, the fun of epistemology - (daemon) - Sept. 22, 2004, 08:18:42 PM EDT

Are you asking Owl or anyone? Luke 22, e.g. - (FuManChu) - (5) - Sept. 21, 2004, 01:27:53 PM EDT

Thanks! - (Nightowl) - Sept. 21, 2004, 01:37:52 PM EDT

thats an interpretation :-) -NT - (boxley) - (3) - Sept. 21, 2004, 01:48:05 PM EDT

Yessss...... - (FuManChu) - (2) - Sept. 21, 2004, 02:16:13 PM EDT

Well not to revisit our pauline discussions - (boxley) - (1) - Sept. 21, 2004, 03:10:41 PM EDT

Well, that's a guess on your part. - (FuManChu) - Sept. 21, 2004, 05:26:06 PM EDT

Get the hell out of my driveway!
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