Post #172,408
9/2/04 11:04:14 AM
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You scared me there
Explain what they want from you and what they think you owe them.
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Post #172,426
9/2/04 12:39:42 PM
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That is why I said (not anyone here)
I did a similar thing for them as for you.
The only thing was I had console access. Here in GR.
Basically, I setup an E-Commerce to MRP/Push-Pull Front-End and Gateway. I used all pieces in this system using COTS FOSS. Well, except for the Certs from Certificate Auths.
It was by far a PITA. Getting connections proper, getting things to talk once the connection was established, using the Postgresql as a storage place for all data in the front-end as a seperate DB with a another db being used solely for data transfer and verification between these 2 systems.
I "customized" things I discovered wrong in code to work proper in the Perl, Python and PHP scripts I had used. I was able to get these people to understand (the programmers that is) how to use the various languages each for its niche. It was amazing how good these previously M$ Visual VB/C/C++ only people were (4 in total). Within 7 working days after I got everything at least talking to each other proper... They had fixed everything coming from disparate pieces I pulled together into something that was truly good looking and functional with about a total of 40 hours between them, they said thanks and off I went.
That was about the time I became extrememly frustrated looking for a job. I thought nothing of throwing 120 hours at this.
But, now is a different story.
From what I just got off the phone with 1 of the programmers, that used to work there, she said that a new "Ops Director" came in a forced the change... She Quit with 2 of the other 3 as well as they were in the ASP crap before and wanted out.
Well, .NET applicants are fast and furious and a nickel a dozen right now... some claiming 5 years experience with .NET.
Well it all rolls down to the fact the New "Ops Director" has seen productivity fall to less than 30% of the previous system since implementing .NET Everything (E-Commerce/ERP/HR/DATA capture etc...) with an actual worsening of performance in the forecast. Board said if he doesn't improve soon (I am guessing the End of Spetember), he will not have to.
The "OPs Director" has made insane offers to the 3 people that left (as well as the existing person, lest he leave) to comeback. These have one requirement beside the pay.
I'll bet you cannot guess what that requirement is?
That is right, now they are trying to force me to MAKE the system for the Front-End again...
TO be honest, the programmers had created another Postgresql DB for Data Wharehousing and reporting. Since I already had things working proeperly from the other systems... and this machine actually was toddling along @ about 5% utilization during peak data/order entry. So they make a reporting setup that worked from the browser and printed just fine from any browser. They also made a "data entry" system that was much better suited for the wharehouse using my setup as well. Lotsa stuff actually used that setup.
This company used to sell most Soap Products mostly... through Direct Distributors. Which was a special soap was the original product of the two founders of it.
Now, they do tremendous huge hy-freaking-arge amounts of http orders and data entry. Not just the e-commerce stuff either warehouse entries and such.
And now you see why... Using Apache with mod_perl, mod_python, php and other pieces... they were able to make anything happen. The "Ops Director" wants it back.
So, now I just wait until my ~6PM appt with a friend that is a partner in a large Law Firm here in GR.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
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Post #172,428
9/2/04 12:45:59 PM
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Like I asked before, what grounds?
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #172,429
9/2/04 12:47:09 PM
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Good recap, but...
What do they think you OWE them?
Anything on paper / email with promises of support?
Have you been billing them ongoing or is there an
expectation that since you did the orginal system,
you owe them some type of ongoing support?
An if so, does have the usualy caveat that when someone
else changes the system support is withdrawn and
needs to be renegotiated?
And does support == modifications?
And would you be willing to deal with them for some serious
$$$ anyway?
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Post #172,434
9/2/04 1:17:48 PM
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First time was a favor
For a friend (whom was the one I chatted with on the phone)
$0 cost for them.
I needed things to keep me sharp.
There was never any type of support planned or even offered. Sure when they got stuck once, I offered my opinion on what needed to happen. That was only 1 e-mail.
The deal was, I do this and get something to keep me sharp and they get a system that works and was supportable by the IT Department. As everything else was homegrown, this fell right in line.
Upto this point I have not billed or gotten any money from them.
I don't plan on doing it a second time for free.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
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Post #172,435
9/2/04 1:37:02 PM
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Ooooohhhh
Do you have the time to give what it need?
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Post #172,436
9/2/04 1:38:34 PM
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@$400/hr? *grin*
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #172,437
9/2/04 1:54:00 PM
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I don't know if I want to, given the amount of...
Stick they have used so far...
It'd take something like that $400/hr for me to do it with CLEAR terms.
Hell, the problem is, I don't even bill companies that I *have* an agreement with...
We shall see. The outlook is it probably will come down to another favor for my friend again...
At least I have already done it once. I did document most of the stuff I did for them and gave it to them.
We shall see.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
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Post #172,440
9/2/04 2:29:30 PM
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Get a contract
Clearly define the scope, time commitment, support and compensation. Run it by a lawyer of your choice, and then send it to them. If they agree to the terms, you have a job. If not, you owe them nothing.
Unless there is significantly more to the story that what you've told, I don't see where they have any claim on you.
From the sounds of it, you must definitely have a contract. If you do it for free as a favor to your friend again, you'll only make the situation worse, they'll always expect you to do it for free.
And if you DON'T want the job, price yourself way high, so that if the DO decide to accept, you'll be well compensated.
Email me and I can help generate a "starting point" contract.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Post #172,441
9/2/04 2:33:49 PM
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I'd still suggest thinking carefully about terms
If you can see your way through to do this for pay, it could be very lucrative. (And recall, you are only working for, say, $70/hour. The other $330/hour is not for the quality of your work, it is an apology for having brought lawyers into the picture. I know you, you always overdeliver. But you only need to overdeliver on the $70/hour...)
And it opens up the following way to avoid trouble: indicate that the more lawyers they apply to you now, the higher your rate will become. That would be doubly convincing if this can be backed up by a lawyer indicating that they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning in court. Make sure that this indication is made directly to all key decision makers in the company, particularly anyone who is equal or higher than the new ops director.
If you can't see your way clear to a solution like this, they become trapped rats with no escape route. They see no way out but through you, so no matter how bad their odds are, they have to try and force you.
Give them a better escape route and their instincts will be to stampede towards it.
Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
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Post #172,597
9/3/04 10:59:35 AM
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^^^^^^^that is the answer
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #172,431
9/2/04 12:58:53 PM
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It sounds like OpsDir should be using a *lot* more carrot
with you (and the former employees) and a lot less stick. But I'll bet he won't.
As far as I can tell, they have no claim on you or your time.
Best of luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #172,520
9/2/04 8:04:07 PM
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Small piece of advice.
It's helped me in my various job-hunts. If you won't do it on Windows, state that that is an immovable condition. I've told several recruiters that I won't support Windows servers. I can be persuaded to support Windows desktops, but not servers. I've found it is too stressful. So I won't do it. Here, I see you chose a non-Windows solution for probably several good reasons. He needs the opportunity to hear what those were.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
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Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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