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New Drudge: Pentagon denies NY'er story of 10/20 raid
The Pentagon's demolishing Hersh's story.

A [link|http://www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm|rebuttal story] (URL may change) states what was originally claimed for raid. Two deaths occured in a helicopter accident in Pakistan, injuries were sustained by paratroopers landing in Afghanistan, but there was no organized enemy resistance, and there were no casualties or injuries inflicted by the enemy on US forces.
The Taliban probably did return fire. They had that--all those capabilities. We know from other reporting, that they were trying to muster greater capability. They were unable to do so. Our soldiers just simply overwhelmed them.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
New Even taking the story at face value
it's necessary to keep something in mind.

Our military is subordinate to civilian political processes. That's good, but it does have one undesireable side effect: if there's no actual war in progress, the military turns political.

On another board, somebody posted "Murphy's Laws of Combat". Two of them are:

--No combat-ready unit ever passed inspection

--No inspection-ready unit ever survived combat

During peacetime, the way you get promoted in the military is to do politics well; plays well with others -- white rocks [one of the many things in M.A.S.H. that rings true], meeting the affirmative action quotas, getting good press. I don't think it's fatuous to argue that a person who's good at that sort of thing isn't too likely to be good at what is theoretically his job, the military action part. An officer who spends most of his day meeting deadlines for paperwork submission and juggling appropriations is learning to do paperwork and manage money, not to lead soldiers in combat. This is fairly well inevitable, IMO.

Unfortunately, when real combat starts, you've got desk weenies in charge, and they screw up. When they screw up, they get relieved, and others move into their positions. Eventually you find somebody who screws up less, and that one stays while the rest play musical commands. If the war goes on long enough, you get competent people in enough positions to get the job done, because promotion now comes on military grounds, not political ones.

We're a long way from that point, so I expect to see some ungodly screwups. Even if this story is completely true, look at it this way: Our guys got out, even if wounded. They'll be back, with a different CO, and some different attitudes (not to mention op orders / rules of engagement). Do that enough time, and it'll start being done right.
Regards,
Ric
New Not bad.. beats TM-1232 "How We Fight"
Imagine too.. joining a group whose highest desirable fate is - to never be needed; just to be - a deterrent. In case you thought we couldn't kick the shit out of you, well - just try.

Extreme form: the Rus or 'Our' Raketchiki (missileers). If they ever have to go to work: they and all - have lost! But by threatening to go to work..

Anyway - nice summary of the Military-Peter in Principle. Simpler:

It's a M.A.D. M.A.D. M.A.D. M.A.D. World and we habitually lie to our kids - that we are rational and beneficent. (They notice the lie ~ when they stop waiting for the Great Pumpkin to appear). No wonder there's Rap and overblown saxophones... and a possible Dubya/Gore at the helm, depending on the coin flip.


Ashton
How do I get outta this chicken outfit?
     Delta Force has a bad day - (marlowe) - (27)
         Happens to everyone? - (Arkadiy)
         Unpleasent realization - (JayMehaffey) - (5)
             Heh.. Gotta love natural selection - in daily proof. -NT - (Ashton)
             Re: Unpleasent realization - (addison) - (1)
                 I suspect - (JayMehaffey)
             The key: "not afraid to die" - (tablizer) - (1)
                 Reality is always so boring. - (Brandioch)
         Two words - (Brandioch) - (16)
             Frankly, they couldn't - (Simon_Jester) - (3)
                 The Afghan airforce. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                     Maybe - (Simon_Jester)
                     That is what the Soviets thought also -NT - (tablizer)
             lets review - (boxley) - (10)
                 Soft insertion. - (Brandioch) - (9)
                     I agree - (gtall) - (8)
                         Pax McDonald's - (Brandioch) - (7)
                             I agree about economic interdependence - (gtall) - (6)
                                 The Great Satan - (Brandioch) - (5)
                                     Think Corporate - (Ashton) - (4)
                                         Re: Think Corporate - (gtall) - (3)
                                             You got it. - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                 monetary concerns - (gtall) - (1)
                                                     Hmm.. thine depravity c'est magnif\ufffdque! - (Ashton)
             Demonstration of the 'N' in SNAFU... - (ben_tilly)
         Drudge: Pentagon denies NY'er story of 10/20 raid - (kmself) - (2)
             Even taking the story at face value - (Ric Locke) - (1)
                 Not bad.. beats TM-1232 "How We Fight" - (Ashton)

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