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New And to think we gave them MFN status
[link|http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$431SABQAAB2BBQFIQMFCFGGAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2001/11/04/wchin04.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/11/04/ixhome.html|Yet another reason why sucking up to China was wrong, wrong, wrong]

Excerpt:

Beijing produces videos glorifying
terrorist attacks on 'arrogant' US
By Damien McElroy
(Filed: 04/11/2001)

THE Chinese state-run propaganda machine is
cashing in on the terror attacks in New York
and Washington, producing books, films and
video games glorifying the strikes as a
humbling blow against an arrogant nation.

Video discs filled with lurid images along with
dramatic opera music and even the theme from
Jaws have flooded the nation's markets in the
wake of the attacks.

Disc after disc bear the imprimatur of the
Communist Party-controlled media. The most
popular DVDs have been produced by the
Xinhua information agency, Beijing Television
and China Central Television.

Communist Party officials say President Jiang
Zemin has obsessively watched and re-watched
pictures of the aircraft crashing into the World
Trade Centre. In the immediate aftermath of
the attacks, workers at Beijing Television
worked round-the-clock to produce a
documentary they called Attack America.

Scenes from Hollywood films have been spliced
between shots of the events of September 11,
including footage from the 1998 remake of
Godzilla, in which a monster destroys New York
buildings.

As rescue workers pick through the rubble of
the twin towers, the commentator proclaims
that the city had reaped the consequences of
decades of American bullying of weaker
nations.

He said: "This is the America the whole world
has wanted to see. Blood debts have been repaid
in blood. America has bombed other countries
and used its hegemony to deny the natural
rights of others without paying the price. Who
until now has dared to avenge the hurts
inflicted by unaccountable Americans."
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New Re: And to think we gave them MFN status
[link|http://www.zmag.org/blame.htm|[link|http://www.zmag.org/blame.htm|http://www.zmag.org/blame.htm]]

[link|http://www.zmag.org/wisenaive.htm|[link|http://www.zmag.org/wisenaive.htm|http://www.zmag.org/wisenaive.htm]]

[link|http://www.zmag.org/pilgernowar.htm|[link|http://www.zmag.org/pilgernowar.htm|http://www.zmag.org/pilgernowar.htm]]


One of Bush and Blair's oft-repeated lies is that "world opinion is with us". No, it is not. Out of 30 countries surveyed by Gallup International, only in Israel and the United States does a majority of people agree that military attacks are preferable to pursuing justice non-violently through international law, however long it takes. That is the good news.


Then this... [link|http://www.zmag.org/monbiotbackyard.htm|[link|http://www.zmag.org/monbiotbackyard.htm|http://www.zmag.org...backyard.htm]]

I hope they gave you more perspective to look at the 9/11 tragedy.

[link|http://www.zmag.org/wiseterror.htm|[link|http://www.zmag.org/wiseterror.htm|http://www.zmag.org/wiseterror.htm]]

If you disagree with the rationale of these viewpoints, I would appreciate if you could point out the irrationality.
New Re: And to think we gave them MFN status
Here's something that "substantiate" the XinHua Agency's view...

[link|http://www.zmag.org/whoterrorizes.htm|[link|http://www.zmag.org/whoterrorizes.htm|http://www.zmag.org/whoterrorizes.htm]]


Since the September 11 attacks, two truths have been indisputable and universally reported. One is that the hijacker bombings of the World Trade Center and Pentagon were atrocities of a monumental and spectacular scale (and media coverage of that day's events alone may have generated more words and graphic images than any other single event in recent history). A second truth is that the bombings were willful acts of terrorism, accepting the basic and widely agreed-upon definition of terrorism as "the use of force or the threat of force against civilian populations to achieve political objectives." And let us also recognize that "sponsorship of terrorism" means organizing, and/or underwriting and providing a "safe harbor" to state or nonstate agents who terrorize.



But there is a third indisputable truth, although much less understood, let alone universally reported: namely, that from the 1950s the United States itself has been heavily engaged in terrorism, and has sponsored, underwritten, and protected other terrorist states and individual terrorists. In fact, as the greatest and now sole superpower, the United States has also been the world's greatest terrorist and sponsor of terror. Right now this country is supporting a genocidal terrorist operation against Iraq via "sanctions of mass destruction" and regular bombing attacks to achieve its political objectives; it is underwriting the army and paramilitary forces in Colombia, who openly terrorize the civilian population; and it continues to give virtually unconditional support to an Israeli state that has been using force to achieve its political objectives for decades. The United States has terrorized or sponsored terror in Nicaragua, Brazil, Uruguay, Cuba, Guatemala, Indonesia/East Timor, Zaire, Angola, South Africa, and elsewhere. And it stands alone in both using and brandishing the threat to use nuclear weapons. It has for many years provided a safe harbor to the Cuban refugee terror network, and it has done the same for a whole string of terrorists in flight from, among other places, El Salvador, Haiti, Vietnam, and even Nazi Germany (see Christopher Simpson's Blowback).



Even in its response to the September 11 terrorist events the United States resorted instantly to its own terrorism. Ignoring legal niceties--despite its supposed devotion to the "rule of law"- -the United States immediately began to threaten to "take out" states harboring terrorists, threatened the Afghans with bombing--itself an act of terrorism--and by such threats succeeded in blocking the flow of food supplies to a starving population, which is yet another act of terrorism, and a major one. (A spokesman for Oxfam International stationed in Islamabad recently stated that "Prior to this crisis, the World Food Program, with the help of Oxfam and other groups, was feeding 3.7 million [Afghan] people. But with the onset of the bombing campaign, this has stopped as the aid workers have been force to withdraw. The airdrops will--at their very best--feed 130,000 people," or only 3.5 percent of those facing winter and starvation). On October 7 the United States then began to bomb this impoverished country--not just a further act of terrorism, but the crime of aggression.



All serious observers recognize that the U.S. actions against Afghanistan have and will cause many, many more deaths than the 6,000 killed in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. But U.S. power and self-righteousness, broadcast and justified to the whole world by a subservient media machine, assure that what the United States does will neither be called terrorism, nor aggression, nor elicit indignation remotely comparable to that expressed over the events of September 11--however well its actions fit the definitions.
New That's a crock and everybody knows it.
The terrorist killing millions in Iraq is Saddam Hussein.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New Nice side-step.
You attack the one part of the article that is a point of contention, and use that attack to totally disregard the rest of the points that are made.

No wonder your internal worldview is so consistent. You don't ever challenge it.

(Edit - I actually do agree that ~80% of the blame for the current state of Iraq lies firmly at the feet of Saddam Hussein - and that the rest of the blame lies at our feet for not having the guts to do it right the first time, damnit!)
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Expand Edited by inthane-chan Nov. 8, 2001, 01:04:32 PM EST
New Do it right the first time?
So what you're saying is we should've been more, um, imperialistically aggressive in Iraq?

If so, then I'm with you.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New Yep.
But you still didn't address the purpose of my post.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New So what was the purpose of your post?
Something about other points? Other than what? There weren't any points, just a couple of pro forma concessions on the blatantly obvious, followed by a bunch of unsupported assertions and some grotesquely bogus logic about bombing.

You do understand the difference between an assertion and a point, right?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
Expand Edited by marlowe Nov. 8, 2001, 03:15:17 PM EST
New Before we go any further...
It looks like there might be some right-shift confusion - were you replying to your own post, or to TTC's post?
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New Well, repeat it enuf times....
...and it becomes the 'truth'. Nevermind that state of Iraq brought this on their own people. They couldn't possibly be culpuble because they aren't supported by the U.S. or Israel.
     And to think we gave them MFN status - (marlowe) - (9)
         Re: And to think we gave them MFN status - (TTC)
         Re: And to think we gave them MFN status - (TTC)
         That's a crock and everybody knows it. - (marlowe) - (6)
             Nice side-step. - (inthane-chan) - (4)
                 Do it right the first time? - (marlowe) - (3)
                     Yep. - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                         So what was the purpose of your post? - (marlowe) - (1)
                             Before we go any further... - (inthane-chan)
             Well, repeat it enuf times.... - (ChrisR)

Eins, zwei, drei, vier.
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