Swiching to Linux and need help

Post #164,250 by JvlivsCaesar 7/13/04 3:42:40 PM Reply	Swiching to Linux and need help OK here is the rundown. This winter i am planing on getting a new PC and really whant to consider my options with the OS. So far Ive been using WinXP but I am not happy with it plus Longhorn looks like alot more of bloatware so I whant to learn Linux beforehand because their is no way in hell I am using LH. The only problem is I am a gamer and I know Linux and games dont usualy mix but I need a users opinion on this one. For exemple can you run OpenGL enabled games on Linux or is that incompatible too like DirectX. I have alot more questions and would apretiate any constructive responses. THX
Post #164,255 by tjsinclair 7/13/04 3:56:03 PM Reply	Re: Swiching to Linux and need help I'll get things started, I guess. RE: Games You've got a couple of options here: - native: Several popular commercial titles are available for Linux, like UT2004. I'm not sure what games you're currently playing but you may wish to check to see if they have a Linux client. (Peter knows more in this area, so I hope he chimes in at some point.) Of course, there are a lot of free, open-source games available on just about any Linux distribution. - non-native: Many Windows games can be played natively on Linux using products from [link\|http://www.transgaming.com\|Transgaming]. They've souped up Wine (a fOSS Win32 API for Linux) by tweaking it for gaming support. Please check out their site and in particular [link\|http://www.transgaming.com/searchgame.php\|their database of supported games] to see if your titles are there. There are, I understand, still some issues with drivers for the latest and greatest video cards (although certainly things are MUCH better than they once were) but someone else would be better able to address that. Tom Sinclair "While I'm still confused and uncertain, it's on a much higher plane, d'you see, and at least I know I'm bewildered about the really fundamental and important facts of the universe." Treatle nodded. "I hadn't looked at it like that," he said, "But you're absolutely right. He's really pushed back the boundaries of ignorance." -- Discworld scientists at work (Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites)
Post #164,299 by JvlivsCaesar 7/13/04 7:47:33 PM Reply	Re: Swiching to Linux and need help Thank you for you replise and the information you have provided so for (keep it comin') After extensive resaerch ive came accross TransGaming and it looks like the company has alot of potential. My real question is WineX is trying to emulate DirectX from what I understand because MS holds the right to it their is unlikely to be a native vertion of it but shouldnt OpenGL games have less problems with Linux or is that also not suported natively? In my experiens most games are eather able to run GL or Direct3D so if Linux suports OpenGL their should be a way to get it working. I also uderstand the driver situation, after visiting some hardware forums. And ATi, my video card of choise is laking badly in that department but resent rumors sujests they are geting a wholle new team to develop Linux drivers (I am an optimist I know) The basic question is "is it doable?"
Post #164,303 by inthane-chan 7/13/04 7:55:26 PM Reply	The problem isn't OpenGL... ...which Linux does support. The problem is that compiled binaries (and this is a vast oversimplification) are targeted to one OS: Windows or Linux - and need to be recompiled to run under the other system. So even if I write a game that uses "OpenGL" as the rendering engine, if I write it for Windows, I'm likely to use Windows-specific calls. If I want the game to run under Linux, I either need to recompile the application for Linux (impossible if I don't have the source) or run it via an emulation layer. WANTED: Precognitive Telepath for adventuring Partnership. You know where to apply.
Post #164,312 by JvlivsCaesar 7/13/04 8:16:38 PM Reply	Re: The problem isn't OpenGL... Thank you for clearing that up for me. And I asume thats exacly what the developer do when they port their games to Linux right? Some one said some thing about HL2 is it known if it will have linux client?
Post #164,341 by inthane-chan 7/14/04 12:21:24 AM Reply	Well... [image\|http://www.oz.net/~inthane/emotes/google.gif\|\|\|\|] [link\|http://groups.google.com/groups?q=half-life+2+linux+client&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=37D2D173.5BFD88F%40bellsouth.net&rnum=1\|http://groups.google...lsouth.net&rnum=1] According to the above link, Team Fortress 2 won't have a Linux client. That probably extends to Half-Life 2, given that they utilize the same engine. WANTED: Precognitive Telepath for adventuring Partnership. You know where to apply.
Post #164,345 by JvlivsCaesar 7/14/04 1:12:13 AM Reply	Re: Well... Thanx for the link. I did noticed that the artcle is 5 years old and alot had changed sice then. First HL2 wosent even anaunced to the public and the TF2 screens from that time resemble nothing of HL2 state today. From what I understand for some time TF2 was supose to be a stand alone sequal but later was scraped in fawor of HL2 and porting every thing to the Source engien. So IMO their is still hope left. If Doom 3 has Linux client (wich knowing iD their is a good chanse of that)Valve wouldnt whant to miss out on that market it self. Also alot of home/dedecated servers for HL and CS use Linux it would only make sence their are also Client users who would by the game as well. Dose are just my observations.
Post #164,492 by JvlivsCaesar 7/14/04 9:53:11 PM Reply	Re: Well... Well good news after a bit trolling I faund out that DOOM3 will have a client vertion for Linux. Not surprising considering iD usually makes their games avalible on all platforms(remember Quake2 and 3).
Post #164,257 by inthane-chan 7/13/04 3:59:32 PM Reply	In short... ...it depends. Welcome aboard, by the way. Check out the Water Cooler above, introduce yourself, look around. Some games have native Linux versions: Quake 3, Unreal Tournament (I think), NeverWinter Nights, and a few others. Many Windows games don't have Linux equivalents (Half-Life only has a Linux server, no Linux client) but strides have been made in the right direction using TransGaming's WineX (now Cedga(?) IIRC) plugin to emulate Windows services on the x86 platform. WANTED: Precognitive Telepath for adventuring Partnership. You know where to apply.
Post #164,276 by admin 7/13/04 4:48:56 PM Reply	Cedega Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #164,348 by folkert 7/14/04 2:06:10 AM Reply	I have many games on Linux. Matter of fact: I run, UT, UT2003, UT2004, NWN, many SCUMM-engined games, Wesnoth, Quake2 is available for free now. Winex doesn't "emulate", based on Wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator) They provide the APIs and other such things. P;us they CAN use Windows DLLs. I am currently running: SIMs, a coupla Star treks, a few other games (Fallout 1/2), Diablo 1/2, Alien vs Predator. System Shock 2. Yeah I have many old games. Many work, some don't Lotsa other things are currently said to work, that I don't have. Half Life 2 seems to be using an engine that IS possible to have on Linux... just the developer of that engine, has been threatened... err talked to, by a certain other company. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Heard near the SCOG employee entry/exit way: `Security: We got another Mass Exodus Doorway Jam.`
Post #164,458 by JvlivsCaesar 7/14/04 4:10:21 PM Reply	Re: I have many games on Linux. Well thats very nice to hear that so many games are able to run on Linux. From what i know about WineX its not actualy an emulation software but rather a program that is able to plug DirectX files into the Linux equvalent or something to that extend.(keep in mind I am using oversimplification) I have couple of questions about WineX. The games are suported on title by title basis not buy and play right? Do you get a segnificant performans drop or is it more or less the same? Also when we are talking about HL2 client we are talking native right? PS hopefully Doom 3 will be just as cross compatible as Quake 2 was.
Post #164,490 by folkert 7/14/04 9:21:39 PM Reply	There are enough: Games that use the common engines that Quite a few games can be played. WineX provides the API calls and DLL intercepts for the games. It is like a compatibility layer. I don't know what you arr asking about WineX. But I believe I can answer the question anyway. You install th games similarly to the way you do on windows. As for speed decrease? I haven't seen much if any, on most games and other windows programs. The pieces I notice is a Hoggish game on Windows sometimes plays BETTER on Linux and WineX, sometimes they play even MORE horribly. It is more about the progress in implemntation the Transgaming(new company now?) has gotten to work proper. When I talking about a HL2 game on Linux... I am talking about an "ELF" binary, which would be "native". I am assuming Doom3 will have a Linux version ... Linux is getting MORE and MORE attention. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source]
Post #164,497 by JvlivsCaesar 7/14/04 11:26:42 PM Reply	Re: There are enough: Good news (i posted it above too but here it gose anyway) Doom 3 will have Linux client. Wich means Other games using Doom 3 engien will most likely suport it too also a AAA title like that will get alot of atention from of game makers. When I asked about WineX suport for games, I meant do you have to check with the website first to make sure each particular title is suported or dose it suport any game automaticly. I have heared of Far Cry running every thing close to max and good frame rate in Linux enviorment with non top of the line hardware. Something imposible in Windows as I have 9800pro in medium settings and still lag.
Post #164,259 by deSitter 7/13/04 4:03:01 PM Reply	Hi Norm! Still want Linux help I see! -drl
Post #164,260 by Another Scott 7/13/04 4:04:27 PM Reply	Let's not go there again, please?
Post #164,277 by admin 7/13/04 4:49:07 PM Reply	Stow it, Ross. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #164,309 by a6l6e6x 7/13/04 8:10:43 PM Reply	Hate to admit it, but I had the very same thought. :) Alex "If I seem unduly clear to you, you must have misunderstood what I said." -- Alan Greenspan, Federal Reserve chairman
Post #164,431 by rcareaga 7/14/04 1:52:01 PM Reply	Re: Hate to admit it, but I had the very same thought. :) Without providing particulars I can vouch for young Caesar, both as to identity (not Norm) and character (also not Norm), who is barely out of his teens, and the shortcomings of whose English are largely the consequence of his having used the language for only the past few years (an excuse unclaimable by Norm). When he asked me for Linux tips I told him that there were not ten thousand people in California less qualified than I to hold forth on the subject, but that the doughty digiterati of iwethey could probably be counted upon to give him a gracious hearing. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #164,434 by deSitter 7/14/04 2:06:51 PM Reply	rofl - Hail Caeser Nonormius! -drl
Post #164,436 by pwhysall 7/14/04 2:33:06 PM Reply	Actually, his English isn't so bad. His spelling is innovative and phonetic, but his actual sentence construction and grammar puts more than a few native speakers to shame. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #164,472 by a6l6e6x 7/14/04 5:46:05 PM Reply	Thanks for the info! My humble apologies! Alex "If I seem unduly clear to you, you must have misunderstood what I said." -- Alan Greenspan, Federal Reserve chairman
Post #164,357 by pwhysall 7/14/04 7:09:13 AM Reply	On graphics card choice First up, I'd say that for the novice Linux user, the nVidia drivers seem to be more readily installable. I've got a Radeon 9800 Pro, and while straightforward, the driver installation wasn't simple. Let this drive your hardware choice. UT2004 and 2003 run on Linux, albeit with a substantial but not crippling performance hit. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #164,443 by JvlivsCaesar 7/14/04 3:28:30 PM Reply	Re: On graphics card choice Yeah it looks like I will have to use nVidia at list for now. But then again things change in PC world some times faster then we would like them to (graphic wars) so by the time I am actualy ready to builed my computer ATi may come to their sences and god forbid actualy write a driver or 2 for Linux. Also ATi's lack of usable driver for Linux is only over shadowed by the fact that nVidia is already providing 64 bit drivers for Linux and that should factor in nicely into what card I choose spend my money on. You mentioned UT2k4 performans drop, how bad is that and dose it increse with use of mods (I dont play the orignal game only Red Orchestra)? Thanx for the Info
Post #164,455 by pwhysall 7/14/04 4:09:28 PM Reply	Oh, the ATi driver's USABLE, all right :) I've got it and it provides shitkicking OpenGL performance. It's just a bit of a git to install. Can't comment on the 64-bit stuff. I dual boot my system, and between Windows and Linux there's a performance drop of not less than about 25%. It never renders the game unplayable but it does steal some of that silky goodness. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #164,459 by JvlivsCaesar 7/14/04 4:15:13 PM Reply	Re: Oh, the ATi driver's USABLE, all right :) To clear things up I understand that ATi drivers are not horrble but I was reffering to 3.9 vertion that took 2 month to write and it offered almost no impruvement. IMO things can only get better from here on, I know I am an optimist when it comes to computers.
Post #164,460 by pwhysall 7/14/04 4:16:12 PM Reply	3.9 drivers are fine here.... Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #164,462 by JvlivsCaesar 7/14/04 4:21:52 PM Reply	Re: 3.9 drivers are fine here.... I cant argue with you since you are the one actualy using them but most of my info comes from rage3d linux forums. You will forgive me for coming off as a bit of ATi basher but I actualy love the brand and is the only card I would choose (using 9800pro 128 now).
Post #164,491 by folkert 7/14/04 9:27:40 PM Reply	WTF are you talking about? UT2004 and 2003 run on Linux, albeit with a substantial but not crippling performance hit. I have seen it run on the same machine with either Windows or Linux... basically, NO noticeable difference. ATI drivers are a bit more obtuse an install. While nVidia is more straight forward. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source]
Post #164,507 by pwhysall 7/15/04 1:47:24 AM Reply	Re: WTF are you talking about? The OGL rendering paths are performance-equivalent on Win and Lin. The DX rendering path is faster. Sad but true. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #164,561 by folkert 7/15/04 11:03:40 AM Reply	This I'll prolly give you. I'll ask the guyto check too. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source]

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