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New Beg to differ
[link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=163276|Post #163276]:
If you work in the open, you have nothing to fear.
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New I would extend that a little bit.
If you work in the open, AND EVERYBODY ELSE DOES, then you have nothing to fear.
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
New We'll need clarification
I read that as that Greg doesn't have to fear about Novell abusing his information. That is different worrying about the government unfairly targeting him.

Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
New Joke, meet Ben ... Ben, joke
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New Is that that "humor" thing?
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
New For you, Ben, it's "humour"
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New methinks we need another Sign...
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Re: methinks we need another Sign...
[image|http://www.oz.net/~inthane/images/humor.gif||||]
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
New For Ben
[image|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/pub/Main/DrewKime/humor.png||||]
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New Request to admin:
Put both into WeeCodes:
[humor]
[humour] (for the spelling impaired...)
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New s/impaired/clueful/ :)
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
New s/clueful/anachronistic ;-)
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Nahhh.. just hit the humourless with a humerus
New Or drop an altimeter from several thousand metre hight.
Thereby one should know the difference between a meter and a metre...:-)
New And a meeter as well!
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
New Re: And a meeter as well!
Which strangely enough brings up a reference to [link|http://www.calvin.edu/meeter/|Calvanism]
New Thus.. Italo
[link|http://www.emory.edu/EDUCATION/mfp/cal.html| Calvino]
ON GETTING ANGRY AT THE YOUNG

In a time when young people's impatience with the old and old people's impatience with the young have reached their peak, when the old do nothing but store up arguments with which to tell the young finally what they deserve and when the young are waiting only for these occasions in order to show the old that they understand nothing, Mr. Palomar is unable to utter a word. If he sometimes tries to speak up, he realizes that all are too intent on the theses they are defending to pay any attention to what he is trying to clarify for himself.

The fact is that he would like not so much to affirm a truth of his own as to ask questions, and he realizes that no one wants to abandon the train of his own discourse to answer questions that, coming from another discourse, would necessitate rethinking the same things with other words, perhaps ending up on strange ground, far from safe paths. Or else he would like others to ask him questions; but he, too, would want only certain questions and not others: the ones he would answer by saying the things he feels he can say but could say only if someone asked him to say them. In any event, nobody has the slightest idea of asking him anything.

In this situation Mr. Palomar confines himself to brooding privately on the difficulty of speaking to the young.

He thinks: "The difficulty lies in the fact that between us and them there is an unbridgeable gap. Something has happened between our generation and theirs, a continuity of experience has been broken: we no longer have any common reference points."

Then he thinks: "No, the difficulty lies in the fact that every time I am about to reproach or criticize or exhort or advise them, I think that as a young person I also attracted reproaches, criticism, exhortation, advice of the same sort, and I never listened to any of it. Times were different and as a result there were many differences in behavior, language, customs; but my mental processes then were not very different from theirs today. So I have no authority to speak."

Mr. Palomar vacillates at length between these two views of the question. Then he decides: "There is no contradiction between the two positions. The break between the generations derives from the impossibility of transmitting experience, of saving others from making the mistakes we have already made. The real distance between two generations is created by the elements they have in common, which require the cyclical repetition of the same experiences, as in the biologically inherited behavior of animal species. The differences between us and them, on the contrary, are the result of the irreversible changes that every period evolves; and these differences are the result of the historical legacy that we have handed on to them, the true legacy for which we are responsible, even if unconsciously sometimes. This is why we have nothing to teach: we can exert no influence on what most resembles our own experience; in what bears our own imprint we are unable to recognize ourselves."

Italo Calvino

The Naked Bosom

Mr. Palomar is walking along a lonely beach. He encounters few bathers. One young woman is lying on the sand taking the sun, her bosom bared. Palomar, discreet by nature, looks away at the horizon of the sea. He knows that in such circumstances, at the approach of a strange man, women often cover themselves hastily, and this does not seem right to him: because it is a nuisance for the woman peacefully sunbathing, and because the passing man feels he is an intruder, and because the taboo against nudity is implicitly confirmed; because half-respected conventions spread insecurity and incoherence of behavior rather than freedom and frankness.

And so, as soon as he sees in the distance the outline of the bronze-pink cloud of a naked female torso, he quickly turns his head in such a way that the trajectory of his gaze remains suspended in the void and guarantees his civil respect for the invisible frontier that surrounds people.

But--he thinks as he proceeds and resumes, the moment the horizon is clear, the free movement of his eyeballs--in acting like this, I display a refusal to see; or, in other words, I am finally reinforcing the convention that declares illicit any sight of the breast; that is to say, I create a kind of mental brassiere suspended between my eyes and that bosom, which, from the flash that reached the edge of my visual field, seemed to me fresh and pleasing to the eye. In other words, my not looking presupposes that I am thinking of that nakedness, worrying about it; and this is basically an indiscreet and reactionary attitude.

Returning from his stroll, Palomar again passes that bather, and this time he keeps his eyes fixed straight ahead, so that his gaze touches with impartial uniformity the foam of the retreating waves, the boats pulled up on shore, the great bath towel spread out on the sand, the swelling moon of lighter skin with the dark halo of the nipple, the outline of the coast in the haze, gray against the sky.

There--he reflects, pleased with himself, as he continues on his way--I have succeeded in having the bosom completely absorbed by the landscape, so that my gaze counted no more than the gaze of a seagull or a hake.

But is this really the right way to act?--he reflects further. Or does it not mean flattening the human person to the level of things, considering it an object, and, worse still, considering as an object that which in the person is the specific attribute of the female sex? Am I not perhaps perpetuating the old habit of male superiority, hardened over the years into a habitual insolence?

He turns and retraces his steps. Now, in allowing his gaze to run over the beach with neutral objectivity, he arranges it so that, once the woman's bosom enters his field of vision, a break is noticeable, a shift, almost a darting glance. That glance goes on to graze the taut skin, withdraws, as if appreciating with a slight start the different consistency of the view and the special value it acquires, and for a moment the glance hovers in mid-air, making a curve that accompanies the swell of the breast from a certain distance, elusively but also protectively, and then runs on as if nothing had happened.

In this way I believe my position is made quite clear--Palomar thinks--with no possible misunderstandings. But couldn't this grazing of his eyes finally be taken for an attitude of superiority, an underestimation of what a breast is and means, as if putting it aside, on the margin, or in parentheses? So I am relegating the bosom again to the semidarkness where centuries of sexo-maniacal puritanism and of desire considered sin have kept it . . .

This interpretation runs counter to Palomar's best intentions, for though he belongs to a human generation for whom the nudity of the female bosom was associated with the idea of amorous intimacy, still he hails approvingly this change in customs, both for what it signifies as the reflection of a more broad-minded society and because this sight in particular is pleasing to him. It is this detached encouragement that he would like to be able to express with his gaze.

He does an about-face. With firm steps he walks again toward the woman lying in the sun. Now his gaze, giving the landscape a fickle glance, will linger on the breast with special consideration, but will quickly include it in an impulse of good will and gratitude for the whole, for the sun and sky, for the bent pines and the dune and the beach and the rocks and the clouds and the seaweed, for the cosmos that rotates around those haloed cusps.

This should be enough to reassure once and for all the solitary sunbather and clear away all perverse assumptions. But the moment he approaches again, she suddenly springs up, covers herself with an impatient huff, and goes off, shrugging in irritation, as if she were avoiding the tiresome insistence of a satyr.

The dead weight of an intolerant tradition prevents anyone's properly understanding the most enlightened intentions, Palomar bitterly concludes.
New I get to choose my spelling :-P
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
New Of course, you would have to...
Prove my point for me.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

Heard near the SCOG employee entry/exit way:

  Security: We got another Mass Exodus Doorway Jam.
     Who are the IWETHEYers - (lincoln) - (20)
         Nobody admits to that belief that I know of - (ben_tilly) - (19)
             Beg to differ - (drewk) - (18)
                 I would extend that a little bit. - (inthane-chan)
                 We'll need clarification - (ben_tilly) - (15)
                     Joke, meet Ben ... Ben, joke -NT - (drewk) - (14)
                         Is that that "humor" thing? -NT - (ben_tilly) - (13)
                             For you, Ben, it's "humour" -NT - (drewk) - (12)
                                 methinks we need another Sign... -NT - (jb4) - (10)
                                     Re: methinks we need another Sign... - (inthane-chan) - (9)
                                         For Ben - (drewk) - (3)
                                             Request to admin: - (jb4) - (2)
                                                 s/impaired/clueful/ :) -NT - (Meerkat) - (1)
                                                     s/clueful/anachronistic ;-) -NT - (jb4)
                                         Nahhh.. just hit the humourless with a humerus -NT - (Ashton) - (4)
                                             Or drop an altimeter from several thousand metre hight. - (Gibbo) - (3)
                                                 And a meeter as well! -NT - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                     Re: And a meeter as well! - (Gibbo) - (1)
                                                         Thus.. Italo - (Ashton)
                                 I get to choose my spelling :-P -NT - (ben_tilly)
                 Of course, you would have to... - (folkert)

"It grew, as the sum of a lot of separate people's ad-hockery, most of those by people who had no idea what they were doing, and would gladly pound screws with a hammer all year long, for lack of acquaintance with the concept of screwdrivers." - Rick Moen
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