Post #160,883
6/21/04 8:46:03 PM
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So I've given up on VMWare
The kernel I just installed isn't supported by VMWare yet, and I've already got a couple other things compiled against it, and VMWare costs $ anyway, so I'm about to uninstall VMWare and just do a dual boot.
Time to go looking for docs on installing XP to a second physical drive when I've already got Linux (using Grub) on the primary. Whee. :-/
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #160,884
6/21/04 8:50:58 PM
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You can trick it...
Look at swapping Drives with Grub... and it WORKS!
BAHAHAHA.... What a wonderful tool Grub is.
Something on the order of hda=hdb hdb=hda
I believe I have written about it here, somewhere.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Heard near the SCOG employee entry/exit way:
Security: We got another Mass Exodus Doorway Jam.
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Post #160,894
6/21/04 9:13:54 PM
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Good man, giving up his toys!
-drl
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Post #160,929
6/21/04 10:41:40 PM
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They *never* make it easy, do they
If I want XP I've got to open the box and set the second drive -- the one that's going to get XP -- as the damn master to do the install. It will take over the entire drive and it won't accept anything but ntfs, which Linux doesn't write to. (At least as of the docs I've been googling.)
Then after the install I switch the XP disk back to slave and twiddle Grub to make it work. And create a FAT32 partition on my Linux drive so that I can share files between the two. Can I shrink an existing ext3 partition to make room for the FAT32 partition?
What a pain in the ass.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #160,935
6/21/04 10:59:38 PM
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Re: They *never* make it easy, do they
Yes, I managed to do this on a machine that had an old BIOS, requiring 0->1 sector translation. It had no Windows partition at all, 40g hard disk with /, /usr, and swap. I made /usr part of / and installed sector translation, then used Linux to move over an entire Windows 98 setup from a completely different machine. It was very complex but the end result was seamless Win98/Linux bootage from LILO.
(It's hilarious to watch Windows 98 rebuild itself when grafted whole onto another machine. In the end it runs just fine.)
-drl
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Post #160,937
6/21/04 11:03:20 PM
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XP is different... the filesystem takes over the whole drive
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #160,939
6/21/04 11:09:36 PM
6/21/04 11:11:53 PM
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Not if you graft it on
You could even graft it down onto FAT32 from NTFS. It will start in partial safe-mode and start reinstalling low-level devices, and could at some point ask for the CD. So just make an image and come up with a way to unpack the image onto hda1 from Linux.
I'll bet it's easier with XP, because the boot process is saner and you can boot from the CD and do a repair. Just make the ERD that XP needs. That'll restore Windows booting, then you start Linux from a bootdisk and re-establish Linux booting with Windows as a secondary boot option.
Both my laptops work this way.
-drl
Edited by deSitter
June 21, 2004, 11:11:53 PM EDT
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Post #160,957
6/22/04 1:48:49 AM
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Not entirely true
It doesn't have to use the entire drive and you can use FAT32 if you like.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #160,958
6/22/04 1:50:36 AM
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And all the stuff I find online says not to do that
Dozens of sites, people complaining that XP won't run properly on fat32.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #160,961
6/22/04 2:05:48 AM
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Sure it does.
Trust me. I'm an MCP.
While it's true that it's better to run on NTFS for reasons of filesystem security and robustness, Windows XP will run happily on FAT32.
Best Practice would be to run XP on an NTFS partition with the disk converted to dynamic; however, Best Practice and reality often collide.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #160,983
6/22/04 8:58:34 AM
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rofl
Trust me. I'm an MCP. Yeah, right. ;-) -YendorMike
[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
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Post #160,984
6/22/04 8:59:34 AM
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Okay Mr. MCP Man
How would you do what I'm about to do? Two physical drives. (Actually I've got a third I could drop in if I bother to get another cable.) Linux already on hda. hdb is currently mounted as /c (Yes, that's where Windows was going to go :-)
I expect to have to reformat hdb to install some version of Windows. I'm not locked into the idea of XP, I'm just going to use it as a device driver for my scanner and printer. The Windows instance will never touch the net, so anything since W95 would work.
Which would be easiest to install? Is it possible to install one without opening the case and switching the drives master/slave? And how would you do file sharing, a separate partition both OSs can read/write, or just let Linux read/write directly into the Windows partition?
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #160,992
6/22/04 10:01:09 AM
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IANP...
but I can't resist replying to a post by DK.
If you're going to be swapping drives, I think the least painful way is to get something like the following:
1) [link|http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-121-106&depa=1|Kingwin KF-21-IPF] drive rack. $19.00
2) [link|http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-121-153&depa=1|Kingwin KF-21 extra tray]. $13.99
That will give you 2 drive trays and you can swap out one drive whenever you want to boot the other OS. Buy more trays if you want to add more drives (that you use sequentially).
Such trays will also work in their external ATA to USB box. (Make sure you get the right variety if you're considering that option.)
It's a lot less of a hassle than fighting with cables and jumpers, and the fan helps keep the drive cool.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #160,994
6/22/04 10:04:38 AM
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The swap is something I should only have to do once
Well, and then swapping back after the install. But once it's all installed I want to just use Grub to boot into one or the other. If I can't do that I'll find another way.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #161,037
6/22/04 1:10:58 PM
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More details, sai - and some answers.
1. What's on the second hard disk at the moment? Partitioned? Formatted?
2. If it's NTFS or FAT32, you won't have to reformat it, as long as there's sufficient space.
3. You MAY have to physically swap the hard disks around. Hell, suck it and see. The XP installer commits you to nothing before the "choosing a partition to install on" stage.
4. Remember, you don't have to install to drive C:
5. The quickest and easiest way of having a partition that's read/write from both OSes is to use FAT32.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #161,056
6/22/04 2:21:45 PM
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How do I launch the installer
1. What's on the second hard disk at the moment? Partitioned? Formatted? Formatted ext3. Nothing on it. One partition. 2. If it's NTFS or FAT32, you won't have to reformat it, as long as there's sufficient space. I'd like to do part of it (most of it actually) as fat32 for data storage. Only 2G or so for the OS. If XP takes over the whole drive I may go with W95 instead. 3. You MAY have to physically swap the hard disks around. Hell, suck it and see. The XP installer commits you to nothing before the "choosing a partition to install on" stage. Reboot the system and boot to cd, then it will ask what partition to go to. Okay. Will try. 4. Remember, you don't have to install to drive C: I'll have to see that the installer says. I don't really care what it calls the drives. 5. The quickest and easiest way of having a partition that's read/write from both OSes is to use FAT32. Except, as I said, for the warnings I've seen against doing that with XP. ===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #161,070
6/22/04 3:34:06 PM
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Re: How do I launch the installer
1. What's on the second hard disk at the moment? Partitioned? Formatted? Formatted ext3. Nothing on it. One partition.
Good luck installing XP onto that without reformatting or partitioning :-D 2. If it's NTFS or FAT32, you won't have to reformat it, as long as there's sufficient space. I'd like to do part of it (most of it actually) as fat32 for data storage. Only 2G or so for the OS. If XP takes over the whole drive I may go with W95 instead.
2G is insufficient for XP. Chop it up; make a 4G partition for the OS, and sort the rest out later. XP doesn't "take over" the whole disk; it presents you with the same disk partition tool we all grew to love with Windows NT. 3. You MAY have to physically swap the hard disks around. Hell, suck it and see. The XP installer commits you to nothing before the "choosing a partition to install on" stage. Reboot the system and boot to cd, then it will ask what partition to go to. Okay. Will try.
Good. Don't be all pointy haired on me, now. 4. Remember, you don't have to install to drive C: I'll have to see that the installer says. I don't really care what it calls the drives.
OK, so do that then. 5. The quickest and easiest way of having a partition that's read/write from both OSes is to use FAT32. Except, as I said, for the warnings I've seen against doing that with XP.
There's nothing intrinsic about XP that means it won't work with FAT32. You don't get some benefits of NTFS (security, compression, encryption), but IT WILL WORK. Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001. No shit. ;)
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #161,074
6/22/04 3:39:37 PM
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This isn't stupidity, it's willfull ignorance
I don't want to stay up-to-date with Windows. I'm only installing it to use to drive my peripherals until someone is done reverse-engineering the Linux drivers. Once it's installed, I expect to promptly forget everything I know about how I did it.
Hell I don't even want to know how to install Linux. I just want it to keep working.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #161,134
6/22/04 10:17:01 PM
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Someone who
understands.
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Post #161,149
6/22/04 11:56:17 PM
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Re: This isn't stupidity, it's willfull ignorance
Did you try my program? It works.
-drl
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Post #161,347
6/23/04 10:51:50 PM
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And now I've just given up
I don't know if it was the burned copy of the XP install CD, or the older-than-dirt CD drive, or sunspots, but I couldn't install even after pulling /hda and making (the former) /hdb the only drive. Yes I switched the jumper. Yes I made sure the bios found it.
It took about 10 minutes to decide to start installing, then kept hanging on individual files it couldn't copy. Screw this shit, I've spent enough time on it if I actually billed the hours I could have bought the new one. Even my wife is tired of seeing me fight with it and told me to just buy one that already has what I need.
So Greg, if you're heading to any killer sales and find those buy-one-get-one-free 1/4-terrabyte drives you keep bragging about, pick me up some parts, and you can bill me for the assembly and/or the delivery. I'll drop you an email with particulars, but you already pretty mich know what I want.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #161,405
6/24/04 9:50:05 AM
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Whatever you want...
Do you want XP with that?
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Heard near the SCOG employee entry/exit way:
Security: We got another Mass Exodus Doorway Jam.
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Post #161,410
6/24/04 11:09:16 AM
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Yeah, and fries
Any Windows that'll drive the scanner and printer would do. Even 95 would be fine. Windows will never touch the internet.
BTW BestBuy has 200G for $289 before $50 in rebates.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #161,416
6/24/04 11:34:22 AM
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Re: Yeah, and fries
If you want to wait a week and tote it to Philly, I can guarantee you a dual boot masterpiece :)
-drl
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