Post #157,374
5/28/04 9:20:03 AM
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Conspicuously absent from the PL list
My recommendation for starting (as well as sustaining) programming languages is Python - though Ruby is a satisfying substitute. But then I don't think your stated problem is PL specific related.
Most software development is about (a) good ideas to solve an itch; (b) meticulous reasoning; and (c) dealing with frustration when points a & b go incendiary - i.e. patience. Beyond that, you'd have to be more specific about the nature and breadth of the particular program you are trying to design.
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Post #157,385
5/28/04 10:00:11 AM
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Re: Conspicuously absent from the PL list
> Conspicuously absent from the PL list (Python)
Well, I did modify Seth Nickell's gnome-blog ([link|http://www.gnome.org/~seth/gnome-blog/|http://www.gnome.org/~seth/gnome-blog/]) to my needs some time ago, which is written in Python. It's a good language; I still feel more turned on by C ... preference maybe.
> Most software development is about (a) good ideas to solve an itch; (b) meticulous reasoning; and (c) dealing with frustration when points a & b go incendiary - i.e. patience. Beyond that, you'd have to be more specific about the nature and breadth of the particular program you are trying to design.
That sounds most interesting.
Let me give you a brief explanation of what I want to do. The specific itch this is supposed to scratch is the level of computer-illiteracy in my family, plus my own habits in using a computer (which are a little wierd). Since pictures say more than words, here's a picture of a prototype I tried to build recently:
[link|http://www.schwarzschmid.de/photoalbum/albums/computerstuff/aac.png|http://www.schwarzsc...uterstuff/aac.png]
So now I'll probably get flamed since I was talking about a user interface all the time, of which there are so many already :-). This prototype is actually in use right now by my grandmother (she's been using WindowMaker up until now), and she likes it. "Finally I don't have to mess with these 'windows' I never understood anymore". As you can clearly see from the screenshot, there's only one window open at a time.
Challenges include: * Make it possible for the user to put every "thing" (s)he sees as a bookmark into the bookmarks list. * Have the interface revolve around a historic metaphor, i.e., the "Back" and "Forward" buttons work reliable, all the time. * Implement a system that allows other people to have their applications interact with this environment. For example, I believe the interface should never disturb the user, so there shan't be any "blocking" dialogs. Instead I'd like to have speech bubbles "coming out" from somewhere in the empty space above the Help button. * Have the damn clock work (do I need threads for this? How do threads work? (This is probably a rather easy "challenge", since it'll be solved with a little research and programming)
Note the idea for this has been conceived in 1999 already, so there hasn't been any Longhorn around back then. I had it in my mind for about two years, before in 2001 I decided to learn programming myself.
Back to your points.
a) There's an itch c) There's been patience and I'm willing to show more patience
I'm a little unsure as to what you mean by point (b). Do you mean reasoning regarding design descisions?
I think my main problem is that I have to design an entire system (with all the merits, like having its own live and all) instead of an application. There's so many things to consider. One right descision here could jeopardize something entirely different there. Could as well be wrong with that assumption though.
From what I understand from boxley's post above, do you mean I should just get started and not care too much?
Sorry for my using "thing" so often; I haven't been in an English-speaking country for quite a while.
Thanks!
- Raphael
-- NIETS IS ONMOGELIJK!
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Post #157,395
5/28/04 10:19:17 AM
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take a look at squeak, it is wonderful for what you are
attempting, if I had to do it in a hurry, thats where I would go or I would swipe scotty for an interface as it is extremely modular. [link|http://www.squeak.org/|http://www.squeak.org/] [link|http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~schoenw/scotty/|http://wwwhome.cs.ut.../~schoenw/scotty/] now scotty is not only a network monitor, it is a graphical interface framework, so everyplace they mention insert a snmp command picture grannies stuff going there. thanx, bill
Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #157,399
5/28/04 10:29:34 AM
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Given that your itch is related to Window Management
C is probably the correct route to go. Don't deal with WM too much, so I can't help much on the particulars - though your current questions seem related more to using API's and developing your own set.
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Post #157,407
5/28/04 10:57:07 AM
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Re: Given that your itch is related to Window Management
My wife will arrive at the train station in a couple of minutes, and I have to pick her up, so not much time.
Thanks a million for your replies though!
Maybe I talked too much without saying anything useful. My main problem is: I could very well go and just implement a callback method for every widget, write a couple of supporting functions, and it'd basically do what I want it to do, BUT: would it be properly designed software? Like, maintainable, extendable, with APIs to the outside world, configurable, etc etc etc. Probably not, and that's where I need some support, because you can read up everything on _programming_ in books or on the web, but not very much about actually _designing_ software.
I'll check back on monday, or so!
Bests, Raphael
-- NIETS IS ONMOGELIJK!
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Post #157,429
5/28/04 11:50:27 AM
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Remember, May 31st is Memorial Day in the US...
Of which MANY of us live.
Just understand that *SOME* of us HATE things that get in the way as well.
For me, Microsoft Windoze gets in my way all the time. Horrible.
GNOME has some thing I'd like to see go. Some things I'd really love to see back, mostly in terms of how the environment/window manager reacts to events or notices.
Of course, getting Havoc Pennington to understand this would be impossible.
There is something about this place/group, we call it the IWETHEY Group Mind, very few things escape comment here. I feel that some of the best minds in the entire IT industry gather here at least once every few days.
Oh, BTW, welcome, you sound like you'll fit in fine... Unless you can't bear CRConrad's temperment, he seems to be the King "Flame Lord" hanging around.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. Set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
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Post #157,436
5/28/04 12:34:28 PM
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Start with the design
What should the program do at a very high level. What features do you want to have in it? Break down the features. Continue until you have defined everything that you can think of including.
THEN.
Put it aside for a day or two. Then review it again.
What did you miss? Add, change, delete, color, size, position, query, options?
THEN
Choose a language the gives you the most tools to help you develop your program. Most of us are told what tools to use. You have the luxury of choosing what works best.
Lastly, feel free to post parts of your design for critique and comments.
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