It has gotta go *somewhere*

Post #157,239 by tablizer 5/27/04 1:52:52 PM Reply	It has gotta go somewhere Them dictionary thingies you refer to are called "Objects". That is true. ASP does not have built-in dictionary arrays. They chose to impliment then as an API instead, which means we can't use convenient array syntax. Note that one can implement them using the "handle" API approach also. Thus, we don't need OOP to do the same. Seriously though, you have to be careful about the amount of data you stuff in the Session Objects (in ASP and other platforms as well). Memory is a valued commodity on a web server, and if you eat too much of it up with Session vars, it has to start swapping them to and from disk. That is why I would keep that 600 thingy in tables if possible and let the DB handle RAM caching. But if Scott caches it in RAM, then it is in RAM. It is either in RAM or in tables or in files. Scott's approach seems to be using RAM also. It will have any of the same problems caused by being in RAM as a sessioned array. Interesting material: [link\|http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?ProgrammingWithoutRamDiskDichotomy\|http://www.c2.com/cg...tRamDiskDichotomy] ________________ oop.ismad.com
Post #157,241 by ChrisR 5/27/04 2:08:10 PM Reply	ASP is OO Perhaps not done well enuf, but OO none-the-less. Response.Write("I'm an OO method") Session("I'm_an_OO_session_variable") Request("I'm_an_OO_request_variable") VBScript is brain dead when it comes to constructing objects, but you ain't gonna get very far with ASP without objects. Perhaps they "could have", "should have" done it differently - but they didn't - and my guess is that had a lot of "objective" reasons why they chose the path they chose.
Post #157,243 by tablizer 5/27/04 2:28:21 PM Reply	re: ASP is OO Response.Write("I'm an OO method") The first time I saw that, I thought, "oh shit. They borrowed the Java anti-Demeter dot bloat for print()". VBScript is brain dead when it comes to constructing objects, but you ain't gonna get very far with ASP without objects. Do you mean that one has to use existing OOP API's in order to talk to MS services, or that one must create their own classes in order to implement maintainable biz logic? and my guess is that had a lot of "objective" reasons why they chose the path they chose. Microsoft objective? Ha ha. Actually, they tend to copy what a competitor is selling well at a given time. MS is not known to love OO. They were slow to fix the inheritance in VB, for example. ________________ oop.ismad.com
Post #157,249 by ChrisR 5/27/04 2:55:24 PM Reply	ASP = COM The first time I saw that, I thought, "oh shit. They borrowed the Java anti-Demeter dot bloat for print()". It's called COM (component OBJECT model). Do you mean that one has to use existing OOP API's in order to talk to MS services, or that one must create their own* classes in order to implement maintainable biz logic?* Meaning classes are second-class (as opposed to first class) in VBScript. Notes, that they are still useful and used quite a bit in VBScript. Microsoft objective? Ha ha. Actually, they tend to copy what a competitor is selling well at a given time. MS is not known to love OO. They were slow to fix the inheritance in VB, for example. And I thought you were keen on MS, seeing as how Longhorn is trying to use SQLServer for the File System.
Post #157,258 by tablizer 5/27/04 3:18:32 PM Reply	re: ASP = COM It's called COM (component OBJECT model). I meant the syntax, not how it is implemented. Hmmm. I wonder how closely the ChiliSoft ASP clone sticks to the COM model? Meaning classes are second-class (as opposed to first class) in VBScript. What is the difference between second-class classes and first-class classes? Nah. maybe I don't wanna know. And I thought you were keen on MS, seeing as how Longhorn is trying to use SQLServer for the File System. MS does some things well, and some poorly. I will praise them for good stuff, and cuss them for stupid stuff. For example, I like the case-insensitivity in their tools. But their default of "smart quotes" in Word really sucks. ________________ oop.ismad.com
Post #157,262 by ChrisR 5/27/04 3:33:09 PM Reply	ChiliSoft ASP I've not done more than play with it, but the ChiliSoft ASP works pretty good. Biggest problem is how well it deals with custom COM components written in VB and C++. It does provide a COM-like container, but it works only so far. If you stick with the standard five ASP objects (Application, Response, Session, Request, Server) and the four standard VBScript objects (Err, Dictionary, FileSystemObject, TextStream), then you won't have too many problems. Anyhow, the way Chilisoft implements ASP is by using OO programming techniques. But then, somehow I know you knew that I would say that. What is the difference between second-class classes and first-class classes? Nah. maybe I don't wanna know. Generally speaking, it's the ability of the language to add libraries to itself, and not have the distinction between those libraries you wrote vs. the standard libraries that come with the environment. MS does some things well, and some poorly. I will praise them for good stuff, and cuss them for stupid stuff. For example, I like the case-insensitivity in their tools. But their default of "smart quotes" in Word really sucks. So when they agree with you - they are being rational. But when they make a design decision you disagree with - they are being irrational.
Post #157,275 by FuManChu 5/27/04 4:19:21 PM Reply	Interesting terminology What is the difference between second-class classes and first-class classes? Nah. maybe I don't wanna know. Generally speaking, it's the ability of the language to add libraries to itself, and not have the distinction between those libraries you wrote vs. the standard libraries that come with the environment. I would have thought: first-class classes are themselves objects which can be passed around. Second-class classes are not objects. Both can be used to create objects, but only one is itself an object. Or something.
Post #157,279 by ChrisR 5/27/04 4:32:41 PM Reply	You're probably correct convention-wise (Had a link I was gonna post on the subject matter of "first-classness" have to do with first class messages, but the site is unresponsive at the moment). Anyhow, from my standpoint, I do think that the ability to build libraries from the language should count for something (should probably invent a new term like VBScript is Adjective and/or Adverb based - not Noun or Verb based).

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